I'm what's given me hope previously is when
you mentioned things can change and I think you pointed to post World War II as a time where
there was change and just now you've mentioned that 100 years ago housing was just an inheritable
asset, was it just that post World War II period that changed that? how did we go
from that to post world war 2? I'm an economist I'm not like a super expert
in history but you know this is obviously my particular area of interest is um what I find
what is quite interesting is after the World War II you saw a big increase in tax rates on the
very reach not just in the UK but really globally um and you'd seen that just before World
War II happen in the US with uh FDR Franklin Roosevelt with the New Deal deciding
we're going to push money to ordinary people um so I think what happened was you know and you
know different people can disagree with this but you know second order obviously we didn't do the
second world but second world war was a period where basically the whole of Europe devoted its
entire economy to building tanks and planes and bombs and destroying everything and killing
everyone and just [ __ ] the country up right [ __ ] the whole of Europe up right yeah at the
same time if you were in the England in World War II or Germany I'm not at all saying these are
perfect places to live they still made sure that everyone had housing education and Healthcare
right and food all right that was so people saw during World War II that okay we can devote
our entire economy to killing each other and yet still make sure everyone has housing education
Healthcare and food and I think people sort of it opened people's eyes a little bit to sort
of number one what is possible in our economy and number two how awful things can be if you
don't manage it you know what I mean like it's what I say you know I know it's not popular to
be political but if you're a student of History you see what happens to poor people when they're
not political you know it wasn't the rich guys you know sending their kids out to die you know it
was poor people you know and I think they sort of I think once you've you know I've never obviously
fought in a war right but I think once you've done that you start realizing [ __ ] me we need
to change the way we run our society right and then people came back from that and they
said no we we're not going to accept this this [ __ ] you know we want we want [ __ ] housing
food Healthcare education for everyone and we know you can afford it we know we can afford
that as a society so they so you saw basically every country in Europe simultaneously
basically politically demand those things um and we moved to a space where the top rate of
income tax was 95 and the top rate of inheritance tax was 90 and you know we moved into an
economy where people like my dad who didn't go to university worked with the post office
goodbye a home and raise a family and have food you know not be rich but you could have that
level of stability um and I think what it shows is the power of political Unity amongst poorer
people and this is this is what I keep saying right if you demand it if you absolutely demand
it that inequality gets better and wealth flows to ordinary families then you will get it and the
reason we don't get it is because you know we have media and politics which is very heavily
influenced by extremely wealthy people that tell you stories like oh no if we text rich
people the economy will collapse the rich people will leave it will be a disaster you know
don't worry about your kids they'll stop buying cappuccinos and they'll be fine you know media
tells you this story that everything is okay and you don't need to do anything at the same time
ordinary families get poorer and poorer and the guys who own the media I get richer and richer
right so it's the power of stories you know and you know I know that the story that I sell is very
negative because I say if you don't do anything and we're not doing anything we're not doing
enough we're not United enough life will get worse that's not a very palatable message right whereas
you know Rupert Murdoch is going to tell you in the times that don't worry your kids will be fine
as long as they stop buying avocado on toast right which is a lie but it's much nicer to believe that
than the truth of the situation which is that your kids aren't going to be up to four 12 grandkids
you know what I mean so I think history shows us you know in general when Ordinary People are not
politicized they get screwed over over time you know because the rich are politicized because they
have the money and the power and the time to do it um but eventually when things get bad enough
people realize [ __ ] me we need to be politicized because otherwise this is what happens you know
you know both my granddads went and fought in the War and probably [ __ ] killed people you know
what I mean I've got no idea what that is like you know but that is hell right I think you witnessed
that that makes you realize [ __ ] me we need to change things and that is you know obviously we're
not at that point now but you know things are getting worse and things are getting serious and
that that is an example of how bad things can get if ordinary working people are not politicized to
defend themselves and I think one thing that we saw in the last couple of weeks with the back down
and the 45 tax for the riches that created a risk to the mortgages to people's mortgages and it's
wealthier people that have big mortgages poorest people can't get mortgages at all right and a lot
of them work in the media and a lot of them work in politics and you see these people turn around
and said [ __ ] this we're not accepting it and you see this conservative party switch like that
and that is because you know that upper middle class have political power and they use it you
know they work they might not own the newspapers but they work in the newspapers you know they
might not own the TV stations but they work in the TV stations whereas this sort of poorer 70 percent
they do have political power but they often don't use it and that is I'm not blaming them for
that because I'll come from that background and I know what it's like you just want to make
sure you're taken care of and it's difficult but it's like I say you know there's a political
game being played here for wealth for power for assets and if you don't play it you're going to
lose it and you know the bottom 70 they don't have a lot of money they don't have a lot of assets but
they have a lot of people so the only Power they have is their voting power their power to tell
stories their power to build community but if they don't use that they'll lose their assets then like
it's worth so I think um history shows up shows us it's possible but it's only possible why people
coming together and sometimes it takes extremely bad situations for people to do that I don't want
it to get to that this time I want us to prevent those extremely bad situations from happening
but if we if we don't that's where we'll end up