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THE WEALTH OF NATIONS SUMMARY (BY ADAM SMITH)

This was quite inconvenient to state the least Enter: Money Money helps with the exchange of assets that we generate To get back to the first takeaway, one can say that they boost the efficiency of exchange Fairly early, steels were utilized as cash as well as they have at the very least 2 top qualities which make them appropriate for this objective: They generally do not perish and also they can be divided right into lots of parts and after that merged once more Some points have worth in usage-like spears, meat, salt as well as shirts Various other things have worth in exchange-like expenses, coins as well as metals That which has high value in one, usually is rather pointless from the other viewpoint You can ' t utilize a dollar costs for anything.I indicate you can ' t consume it or anything In a similar way, a spear could be quite valuable but it doesn ' t work well for exchange, as we just saw As long as individuals trust that cash can be exchanged for something else that they are in demand of later on, they are pleased to trade their very own produce for

that money It all'boils down to that: Depend On Warren Buffett has stated that it is fairly misleading that'on the behind of every buck bill, it claims “in god we trust” Because, what it should really say is “in The Federal Get we trust” Takeaway number 3: The 3 parts of cost The real price of every little thing is its rate in labor Something that takes even more time, energy or sources to bring up commonly has a higher actual cost Bob didn ' t desire to make that final bargain with “George because he believed that his spear had a greater actual rate “than George ' s * tee shirt However”, there ' s likewise a small cost and also that is the cost as gauged in money Due to the fact that it ' s tough to measure as well as contrast labor, we ' ve come to estimate genuine rates in terms of money instead The rate of every little thing that is created settles itself right into either one or more of the complying with 3 components:-A wage, to pay the'labor that did the work-An earnings, to pay for the funding that was laid out for the work to occur -As well as a rental fee, to pay the owner of the land where the work and or exchange need to take place We all understand that earnings can differ a lot between different occupations Just look at the ordinary income of a McDonald ' s cashier and also compare that to the wage of a neurosurgeon Similarly, earnings vary from sector to market, yet not as much, as well as also they must balance out over time, something that we ' ll obtain to later These are the typical profits measured as return on equity for different sectors during the period 1999 to 2019 As well as the variable that can differ the most is of program leas In New York, for instance, you ' ll have to pay about $ 5,200,000 per acre of land, while in the nation town of Eksj√∂ in Sweden, you ' ll pay only around$20,000. It ' s just that i ' m not all set to pay$70,000 for it yet Hence i ' m a part of the need, however not the effectual demand, that can really bring the item to the market Takeaway number 4: The three elements of cost, component II Allowed ' s have an appearance at these 3 elements independently An employee will certainly always demand a wage so that he can at the very least purchase the necessities of life for himself and his household

This is the bare minimum which also the easiest type of task have to pay, because or else, such workers will certainly discontinue to exist over time In countries where no minimum wages exist, the easiest jobs will tend to be at this degree as well as not higher This is since employees are at a natural negative aspect when trying to haggle just how much of that cost which was stated previously which should go towards their wage They usually exist in abundance contrasted to funding and also land and also in addition, they usually do not have actually much cash saved so they can ' t afford to wait for a much better possibility But incomes can vary a great deal which we shall see later on A business owner is a person who employs his capital to make an earnings within a particular trade or industry The more capital that is used in a particular sector, the greater the competitors there becomes, and also the lower the profits tend to be So it has to be in society as a whole too.If there are no smart methods to use resources any longer returns will be low Over time, even though some firms can hold on for very long, returns on capital will also out throughout markets This is since where returns are high, there will certainly be incentives to relocate resources, as well as where returns are low, there will be rewards to remove capital This recovers a balance of sorts If you desire to know more about which kinds of industries that can stand up to competition the lengthiest, head over to my summary of “Affordable Approach” An owner of land will certainly either try to offer his land for an earnings or offer it out for a rental fee Either method, a person down the line will at some point attempt to offer it out for a rental fee, or make use of the land themselves, and after that it is they who get the rent Rental fees differ A LOT depending on place Some types of land essentially manage no rental fee at all.While those that individuals discover eye-catching-land in cities or beautiful coastline residential properties- gain a great deal of it Something that need to be kept in mind is that rent is rather like a syndicate price After normal earnings have actually been paid as well as the business person have been able to replace his funding with a” suitable revenue, the proprietor of the land will quite much take what ' s left Land is immovable and irreplaceable, and is as a result strange compared to the 2 other types of profits that can be earned Takeaway number 5: Why some tasks pay more than others do So … Profits of industries should average out over time, and more lease is given to the person who holds a residential or commercial property in a city or at a coastline, all right … However why the **** does my neighbor have a higher wage than me, even though I ' m much smarter than him ?! The wages of labor are chosen by supply as well as need, like every little thing else The complying with five elements have a tendency to impact this to boost the incomes of a particular job- The expenditures as well as troubles of learning it-The incongruity of settlements- The trust and duty-The improbability of success; and- The challenge uncleanness and also disagreeableness of the task In the 18th century a blacksmith had to be an apprentice for lots of years before he was allowed to open his very own profession During this time, he earned very little or essentially absolutely nothing at all The higher wage that he got once finished is a compensation for those years, and also the apprenticeship helps in limiting the supply of such employees A mason could only work throughout good weather problems, as well as so his per hour wage had to be made up for those idle hrs A higher obligation suggests that less individuals are fit for that type of work and also as a result salaries are higher Back in the days, attorneys and also doctors had such functions (and they still have by the means )The improbability of success is an additional element that matters The anticipated wage of a task with an extremely high stop working rate is usually even lower than normal jobs, yet the individual who does well normally obtains the salary of those who fall short too( kind of )Individuals looking for gold or prize belonged to that category As well as in the 18th century the most dirty as well as unpleasant job one might possibly get was probably that of the public death squad, as well as the pay was thereafter Today, a hard as well as costly job to obtain would be that of the previously discussed neurosurgeon An inconsistent one might be that of an actual estate broker A job which calls for a whole lot of responsibility.Is that of a pilot Improbability of success is high among exclusive professional athletes and also artists And also the dirtiest and most unpleasant work is possibly that of a hedge fund supervisor! This book is even more than 900 pages long, so I ' m definitely going to make a part 2 on this with 5 added takeaways In component 2 we ' ll cover subjects such as globalization, free profession, as well as the function of a government So you ' ll probably obtain to listen to even more regarding motivations in component 2!

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Top 5 Wealth Killers Only 1% of Rich People Know

Virtually 6 in 10 Americans don'' t have. sufficient cost savings to cover a $500 or $1,000 unplanned expense. That’s definitely.
horrible because if something fails, you will certainly need to take unneeded lendings.
or, god forbid, pay a bank card passion. They might rise 20 and even 30 percent..
You have to be a moron to pay that much rate of interest. What else can you.
do if you have nothing else option.
Even those who actually.
conserve some cash apparently said they don'' t have much in their financial savings account. Certainly, cost savings went considerably higher during the pandemic age because we were compelled.
to remain at home and also collect stimulation checks yet that’s currently hunting us down with the greatest.
Regardless of the fed'' s best efforts to keep increasing prices, that hasn'' t helped.
never ever recognize that considering that we don'' t have a machine that can take us to a different truth. When virtually 60 percent of the population says that they have less than a thousand.
dollars in their interest-bearing account, you recognize that we have a problem because a thousand.
bucks is probably not enough to cover the rent. What occurs if you get ill, enter into an.
mishap, or obtain discharged? What do you do? I obtain, its hard to save when.
we are bordered by so many things pushing us to spend.Even before

the video clip.
begun, you probably saw an ad that called you to visit their website and also spend some cash. Let me make clear something, spending cash isn'' t bad. There is absolutely nothing wrong with getting things you.
requirement or want. At the end of the day, what’s the point of generating income at the end of the day. On.
top of that, spending is what drives the economic situation forward. Without enough costs, we will certainly have.
depreciation that will reduce economic growth. What I see often takes place is that People typically.
grumble that they can'' t conserve due to the fact that they need to cover their standard costs yet wind up acquiring.
5-dollar coffee as well as avocado salute every early morning. Once again, there is absolutely nothing poor keeping that, as long.
as you are saving an excellent dimension of your paycheck.I don’t truly support the suggestion of saving every. penny feasible since life isn ' t practically conserving money. It'' s concerning experiences. And also component. of that is having a good time with friends and spending cash. If you are at the start.
of your journey, you can'' t manage to spend every cent you gain. You need to construct that.
funding that will certainly deal with your part of you. The issue is that there are few riches.
awesomes that drain your budget plan one of the most. If you can get rid of them, you will certainly be able.
to conserve a ton of money as well as develop that lot of money. If you prepare, give this video a thumbs.
up, as well as let'' s start with the initial one. Vehicle. If you have actually ever possessed an auto, you most likely recognize just how expensive it is to.
have a car.In truth, a lot of people that drive don'' t recognize exactly just how much their cars and truck costs. The average monthly payment on a brand-new car was $575 in 2020. That'' s much from the real cost of.
possessing a cars and truck. Which’s back in 2020. It’s far more than that given that there is a lack of.
chips and also high rising cost of living. Which’s simply your regular monthly repayments without taking into account.
insurance, gas, and particularly upkeep. What I also realized when I got my very first auto was.
how commonly I started to drive.I began driving anywhere, also when it wasn ' t essential. Gas is not inexpensive, specifically now, and also being embeded traffic daily can.
cost a lot of money. However if you have a household, certainly owning a car makes good sense, specifically.
when public transportation is not a choice. But if you are solitary, for god'' s purpose, save that.
You will thank me later on.
as an example. A fortune! 20 bucks here or 30 bucks there don’t appear like a lot, yet if you include it.
up throughout a month, it will add up. According to the Bureau of Labor Data,.
Americans invest regarding 1 percent of their gross yearly revenue on alcohol.For the average. household, that’s$ 565 a year, $5,650 in one decade, or a whopping $22,600 over a 40-year duration. That.
doesn’t appear much. However do not be tricked by this number. It takes right into account all Americans,.
consisting of those who don’t drink and those who consume once to twice a year. If you just.
take into account those who consume alcohol routinely, that number would certainly be much greater. A couple of hundred.
bucks a month is normal for regular drinkers. The same goes for cigarette smoking, gaming, and various other bad.
routines. The ordinary price of a pack of cigarettes is $6.28, which means a pack-a-day routine sets.
you back $188 per month or $2,292 per year. These numbers could not tighten you, however if.
you also count the opportunity price, you will possibly do away with these behaviors right away. If you toss that 2292 bucks yearly right into an index fund with a 7 percent return,.
with the power of compound rate of interest, you can expect to have $365,883 in 40 years. Add to that the medical expenses that you will certainly get as a result of your bad habit, as well as.
you might as well declare bankruptcy. 3.

Spending money on impressing individuals Back when I remained in institution, my self-confidence was.
really reduced since I was doing badly in college, yet as social animals, we want to be appreciated.
by the people around us. We want to be valued because we have so lots of insecurities..
As well as often, when we put on'' t understand how to fix these insecurities, so we spend cash.
to show everybody that we are comparable to them. Why do you think people acquire.
Rolex watches. Allow'' s be honest, a Rolex watch is actually solving one issue,.
which is informing the moment, but even Rolex holders typically utilize their phones to have a look at the.
time.But people still spend loads of hundreds of bucks on them due to the fact that they have effectively.
branded themselves as a deluxe brand that is used by well-known and also effective individuals. We buy them.
to send out a message to people that – look men, I make a great deal of money. I can afford a Rolex. Most.
individuals acquire that type of watch to impress people, which is not a problem if you can quickly pay for.
that. However if you can barely afford a Mercedes as well as still decide to get it, you have just.
tossed yourself into a massive financial trouble. 4. Paying high-interest prices. Bank card are great. It'' s possibly the best. means to build your credit report and also preserve it. It is extremely essential due to the fact that it will.
aid you to obtain finances and lower interest. Here is when things obtain awful. When you use.
a credit score card to pay for things you can not afford, what winds up happening is that, you.
will not be able to cover your credit scores card debt at the end of the month.
They might go as high as 20 or 30 percent. 41 percent of credit rating card customers reported that
they are failing to pay their. 5.
There will. constantly be a woman around you who will attract you, as well as if you can not control yourself, you are.
screwed. The world is filled up with them, but what ' s additionally particular is that your time and.
sources are restricted. Even if you have 100 million bucks, it is very easy to spend that.
cash on a lady in a glance of an eye. What ' s more vital than money is time, the. time you might invest building your'company, side rush, or whatever will certainly produce
. actual wealth.Unless you discover just how to regulate your desire to go after females, you will. never get to financial freedom due to the fact that there will constantly be a lady on whom you.
Thanks for.

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How to ‘actually’ plan retirement ft. Pattu @PersonalFinanceCalculators | CRED Jagruk Talks S2E5

I want to say something to you but allow me to clarify first I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy yet I feel I have to say these words because words are powerful your parents will die your loved ones will get hospitalized you are not immune to accidents and you were never born special whatever can happen will happen it's Murphy's law what I mean is do not wait for something bad to happen to finally get the motivation to prepare for life this is a story of a physicist who studied 14 more years after school to finally land his first job a physicist who never imagined something like this would ever happen in his family this is the story of Dr M patta bhiraman also known as pattu hi I'm pattu from previous [Music] true wealth has nothing to do with money but I told myself I'm never going to be in that position again but two is a professor of physics at IIT Madras who started learning personal finance out of fear his interest in the field of finance and his background as a researcher allowed him to dive deep into it in 2012 he launched his website called freefinkel.com shot for free financial calculators but two has developed several smart financial calculators that are used by not only common people but also used by sebi registered financial planners his Flagship product is the robo advisory template that helps anyone build their financial plan for retirement in a smart Excel sheet he also teaches personal finance through his in-depth data-driven research articles and his YouTube videos and as a matter of fact I personally learned majority of my personal finance lessons from his content and finally I am traveling to Chennai if you have a beautiful sunset to meet him and talk to him about life investing about the mistakes that we make unknowingly that have huge repercussions and how can we successfully build wealth it is truly an honor and a privilege to be able to do this with him so we are in Chennai so yeah number one um foreign but it's taking a little getting used to it and yeah hello sir hello before we proceed unnecessary disclaimer a podcast English because Hindi is not pattu's first language however subtitles this is talks season 2 episode 5 powered by cred let's listen to the conversation [Music] [Applause] [Music] so firstly I'd like to ask you you are a physicist you teach at IIT Madras what was your childhood like so I'm trying to you know understand how did you move from uh being a physicist now you are a finance educator how did it turn out to be yeah so first of all thank you for this opportunity pleasure is awesome so I grew up not too far from here in a big mansion and a huge joint family in fact the my extended family stays with me in a system of flats even today so for me my cousins are my brothers and sisters I was the only child okay I spent a lot of time alone in fact I believe that too much socializing is bad for you because it doesn't allow you to become creative so you know my parents allowed me to do whatever I wanted to do I always wanted to do something creative and the physics seemed like a good idea and they did not have any second thoughts about me doing physics it was in the early 90s there were many friends and relatives who said um you have only child how can you allow him to do physics you should you know get a loan and put him in an engineering college or you know in a mbbs seat or something like that but they let me do it they let me follow my dreams and one thing led to the other and I soon became physicist so uh what was your early career so the path to becoming a physicist is very long so I finished school in 92 1992 and I got my full-term job in 2006.

So okay so three years of BSE two years of MSE five years of PhD then a couple of postdoctoral stints and then you get a job so it's a long drawn process okay so uh have you have you seen a show called Big Bang Theory yes I have seen a Snippets of it not too much the main character of that show Sheldon is a theoretical physicist yes yes it helps kids understand that science is accessible to them yeah they can also do what they are doing yeah exactly so uh after your job how did you become a professor at IIT Madras so um I had these two research stints one in Germany one in Indira Gandhi Center of atomic research in kalpakkam after that I became a assistant professor in IIT in 2006 and since then I've been there okay so how did you get into investing I mean you create so much in-depth data driven content so you're probably the only creator that I have seen who believes in data and other people can feel it that you have done some research behind it and you bust a lot of myths around investing so how did you find that passion oh it's a long story I wouldn't call it a passion I just did it out of fear I would say because um I got my first tenure job uh in the Indira Gandhi Center for Atomic research in early 2006 five days after my first salary that was my first ever full-time salary my father's uh leg broke on its own okay because of uh he had a rare form of cancer and then after one month his other leg also broke so it was like until that time I was I knew nothing about uh Family Life Family responsibilities nothing I was a head in the clouds guy I all I knew was my lab I've just come home to sleep oh and so I knew nothing about a responsibility that then everything fell on me so I had to take care of it I and I knew nothing about money management and the hospital bills started piling up thankfully um I was married by then because I had a very nice brother-in-law who gave me a interest-free loan of about it amounted to three lakhs at relaxed in 2006 is a lot of money today true and uh uh so I realized that I was doing something wrong I had my father had no health insurance so I ran and got health insurance for my mother yeah and so that policy still continues to this day okay so three lakhs in debt basically that was my net worth minus three I started with that I it came to such a point that like you see in the movies my mother actually told me you can sell my mangalsutra if you want to you know make have money for treatment and so on I was because of a technical glitch I was out of salary for about three months okay so before I switched jobs yeah so it became to such a point that I mean I was all the money was just going away and thankfully I was able to get into IIT and this thing stabilized a little bit but I told myself I'm never going to be in that position again where I am going to be borrowing because I don't have money and therefore I started thinking what is it you need to do yeah so first you need to figure out what are the things you need money for what do you need money for in three months six months 10 months and so on it was uh soon enough my uh I mean we had a family started but I didn't realize that we have this first year ceremony right for the child so the first birthday is always celebrated it's a big but I did not uh know that I had to plan for it after the child was born okay it was oh I realized oh in three in the next two months we're going to have this big birthday coming up so I need where am I going to get money from so I told myself never again I'm gonna plan I'm gonna make sure when I need money I'm gonna have it and that's how it started and uh because math is not a you know it's not scary for me because I need math for physics so I started doing the calculations in Excel when I started doing Excel I mean I did not even know how to punch one plus one equal to two there I just learned and thankfully there are so many good resources available online there are so many forums you can learn as long as you know what you want to type in Excel you can find it many people just want to learn Excel yeah that doesn't work yeah you should know what you want to do then it works very well so that's how it so I mean uh both our careers Rohan is our editor he's just 18 right now and I also started as a video editor he also started as a video editor and that's how we learned video editing we did not have to pay any money to someone and we just you know uh searched on YouTube how to make a card how to color grade how to roots and that is a very uh good point because a lot of people say that we want to learn video editing so they are always looking for a defined chapter wise course but sometimes you you may not need that you just need to do one thing simple thing and you can figure out the rest later so that's a very good approach so while while learning investing I mean investing learning investing and learning video editing are two very different things and I feel latter is very difficult so what are the challenges that you faced uh because you were determined that you won't ever have to find yourself in that situation but then how how much time did it take you to uh firstly get to that comfortable situation and what what what were the challenges because you obviously had a science background uh you had you knew math but you know investing is a whole different area so how did you navigate that see um first of all the math and the analytics they are useful to certain points to understand certain truths about or practicalities about investing but day to day daily investing doesn't need that yeah otherwise only the super intelligent or you know super nerdy people who make money that's thankfully that's not the case so what I did was I was reading a lot all I did was I let my I had NPS so I was one of the first set of government employees who had NPS and at that time the uh the money The NPS account was not even set up it was not put into the market so it was basically held at the employer at earning some eight percent so what I did was I was just that was my only investment okay I did not invest anything so I just learned the mistake people do is they first invest and then ask questions yeah they first do something I want something for saving tax so let's just you know I want to give some proof to my employer yeah next week so I'm going to invest something and that's how the portfolio becomes cluttered it's a with a mistake start piling up thankfully I did not do that I didn't do anything I was just learning and then I slowly started uh buying my first mutual fund in fact there are two mutual fund offices in this road HDFC mutual fund is right next to us okay and there is sundara mutual fund right in the next street okay so I used to come to these offices and buy I did not even know at that time aside from my first investment that you have to you can buy things through a distributor and at that time it was the fall the 2008 the market was falling I did not know anything about all that I just started on a 1500 rupees Sip and slowly it started from there I would say I didn't do anything but learned that time of 6 months 12 months where I learned without doing much help me not make mistakes make big mistakes where I could not come come out from I did not buy an LIC policy or that kind of but the one thing is I probably I did not have my father was not around at that time to tell me to do those things probably if he had never got sick and if he were alive today I I would not be here I would have been that guy with the only fixed income in my portfolio with the 10 LIC policies or whatever so it's just I would say luck that's how it it's life yeah so uh after you witnessed the 20 uh sorry 2008 crisis how did you navigate because a lot of people you know pull out their money at times like this so how did you handle that situation so first of all I did not know it I did not know the market was falling I never eat to this day thankfully I don't see the nav or I don't see the market levels I just invest ah but what I did notice what was my the after the the the markets fell and then it recovered yeah but it required in 2009 sometimes yeah but from 2009 onwards to 2013 late 2013 the market went nowhere it was just up and down during that period I noticed uh that every day I would login my portfolio was always red yeah it was always in losses yeah so I was wondering what to do I I used to tell this to my wife and mother and they were scared they said what are you doing I mean you're probably making a big mistake here but I thankfully I learned to be emotional about retirement I always tell people that you can't remove emotions from anything everything that we do whether it is science or investing it's all some emotions are always going to be there too right so it's better to uh exploit those emotions in your favor instead of being emotional about my investments being read all the damn I thought of of being emotional about my retirement I told myself if I pull out now I will again find myself in that debt situation I was just a couple of years ago and I don't want that I want to build money so that I'm never going to be dependent on anybody ever again so that helped me through those five years of sideways markup for the first five years my returns were zero yeah then suddenly the market picked up and I had to learn my I looked at my portfolio one day and I thought what is this it's too much money then I had to learn units Place tens place and I had to count and then I realized that every day the market was gaining what I was investing every month yeah and then I that's when it hit me that's how Equity investing is you have to keep investing without worrying about when the market is going to move up or not it will someday when it changes your life will change and then just like that my life changed yeah so so during uh the four years that four or five years the market did not move a lot of people find it very hard to maintain patience so do you think being emotional about retirement and you know remembering your past days uh made you patient yes I would say I I actually had a very good piece of advice when I went for my IIT interview I met my teacher and he asked me how I was and I told him sir my father has come and Dad and said but to be happy that you're getting all these problems when you're young yeah I was like what are you seeing I mean come on man I mean I'm I'm in trouble and you're telling me to be happy he said 10 years later you will know that you have enough experience to handle problems later very well yeah so it is that experience that so it's it's somewhere it's lucky I mean that's how Okay so I've seen your logo uh free thin Cal logo what is the story behind that logo it's really uh it's an inverted percentage sign it's like saying that we can't get rid of our shadow our shadow is going to always move around with us yeah so if the ah just like that the risk is the shadow of return you can't get rid of risk whatever return you get whether it's fixed or not fixed there's always going to be some risk yeah so I wanted to have some kind of a so the percentage stands for return the inverted percentage is a way of saying you have to look at risks okay okay so uh talking about risks especially during 2009 to 13 uh obviously some you know some sometimes that thought must have crossed your mind okay how much risk am I taking yeah will it ever move up so how did you manage risk uh at the initial levels and how do you manage risk now see thankfully I had some time looking at inflation I had a I mean I was looking at my expenses and I projected my expenses down the line how how much my expenses would increase yeah um that told me that look there is no other way to handle my lifestyle in future or maintain my current lifestyle in future if I don't get a return higher than that because you have to pay taxes so my entire portfolio has to have a return or a growth rate higher than that of inflation after tax yeah so that was the thing that kept telling me hold on hold on be patient be patient and when I look at the past data and if you look at the sensex and plot it in let's say a logarithmic chart you can see that there is a step and then there's a this flat yeah it's for years and years it's flat and then it moves up so you don't know when it's going to move so you got to just paint so looking at past data has always helped me understand that the future is going to be at least like that yeah if not something very different so are there uh some people in your life who have influenced you in a great way they may not be from uh your field but uh you know it they made a turning point in your life there are many of them for example I had a wonderful teacher Mrs Bina gokla in 11th and 12th standard she thought as English and she made the subject come alive she taught us so many things about uh living loving hating and so on and that is when I realized my calling my calling is to teach I realize that's that's when I'll be happy it doesn't matter what I teach whether it is physics or Finance or the movies of gurud or whatever it is the subject is doesn't matter I just like to connect to an audience she was one who kind of made me listen to my passion okay my calling I should say then there have been so many people in finance as well one is PV subramaniam of subramani.com yeah so he has been in the markets for 43 44 years so he's been investing in stocks before the sensex even began I mean even the data began before 1979 so whatever analysis or inferences I make from hours of date data crunching he knows by just living through the markets yeah and he talks about risk and many people today don't give him credit but he was the one who was the first to say put it in an index fund don't today we have all these index investing and that's all popular but he was the one who first said don't spend too much time worrying about which mutual fund to buy just buy an index fund you're done okay so he's been a big influence for uh on me and also he is he had this audience uh ah trying to do DIY ready to do DIY and when he referred my blog at the early stages in 2012-13 so that audience you know also started following me okay so that so PVC Romanian is one influence the other is uh inspirational person is Melvin Joseph Melvin Joseph he's in uh he's a Regis semi registered investment advisor he's a fee only advisor working in Navi Mumbai so he's one of the first in the country and he had left a cushy insurance job and started out on his own doing this and he helps ah you know people he helps the Common Man Okay many financial advisors work with only High net worth individuals nris and so on but he has placed his uh price uh you know at a level so low that anyone can access it ok and he also helps children ah empowers children ah he helps other people pay for their education and so on through and initiative called key kids education and you okay so more than three thousand kids are being benefited by this so he's a guy because of his own Enterprise he's he's also very compassionate and he's also helped so many couples um with their finances and also uh widows and widows with their term insurance claim okay if there's any problem with the claims they go to him he does it pro bono all that is done proposed so he's a very inspirational wonderful wonderful especially with the insurance claims uh it's an ugly situation in India unfortunately true so that's one and also anybody who works without expectations inspire me for example I have at home the caretaker of my mother she works very hard she's very sincere and she works without expectation and that's always something that drives me uh that's been that said in our scriptures in Gita you work don't expect rewards when you expect rewards that's when all the problems start true true so though that's what inspired wonderful so this is a very simple and straightforward question what do you think is more important saving investing or earning I would say now I would say life has taught me that earning is the key okay first you earn because if you if you don't earn you can't invest or save but just don't spend too much okay then only you can do both because saving and investing you should know when to save and when to invest you save for short-term goals and invest for long-term goals you take on Market risk so that's fine but earning is the key so I would say young earners should focus on their skills and they should focus on trying to increase their income over the long term the problem with young people is I mean there's always been a problem with young people I've had problems when I was young that's when that's just the generational thing but they just wanted fast they want results too fast that's a problem you don't get that with money true true last night I got a message from my junior his one year Junior to me and I always sends me screenshot of his mutual fund portfolio and he says why is it charging me expense ratio I want to withdraw it I asked him why do you want to withdraw it he said it's been months it is stable I don't know it will ever go up so please suggest me some other Mutual then I wrote to him that that's not how mutual funds work so now he's asking me how does how do mutual funds work and that you know brings our first point people invest and then start to learn that is a very big problem I mean the today we have a serious problem because most people in the capital markets if they either direct Equity or Equity mutual funds they all come in in the last three four years almost 70 percent of them and they have all been influenced by the bull run that we have seen prior to March 2020 and then after from April 2020 to October 2021 that is so that's been their experience they think that's how their future will always be it will never be like that the worst thing see a crash is not a problem you don't have to worry about a crash because a crash is like too many people believing that something bad is going to happen and pulling out money yeah so thus at the same rate they will come back in yeah if the big crash will always be required followed by a big record worry but after the recovery there will be a Slowdown that happened in 2009 to 2013 that's happening now and that's the scary part because you're losing time yeah you lose five six years of your time if you don't plan well that time is lost forever because there are so many people who say I want returns in three years I want returns in four years that's and they don't have asset allocation all the money is in equity yeah you don't do that for three four years that's I mean it's just potluck you will get any return you want that's very dangerous that's where the planning is not there so what would you advise people uh who are in this phase of investing when the market is moving sideways it is going absolutely nowhere and you know maybe it will stay like that for two or three more years and that's what happened with you back in uh 2009 uh to 13.

So what would you advise such people who have entered the market after 2020 let's say uh now they will be they'll be disappointed like my friend is so what what do you suggest them to do I think first a pause and look at your own needs yeah so personal finance starts from us yeah why are you investing when do you need the money if you want the money in the next five years seven years don't invest in any form of equity okay stick with ordinary fds RDS that's fine nothing much is going to happen in five years have a long term view English money iniquity only for your retirement in your financial Independence for 15 years 20 years then you don't have to worry about what happens in the market in the next few years yeah so you have to plan so that and make sure you have enough money for short-term needs and then put a money away for long term needs that's what yeah but the the concern most people have is they want to you know do something with that money after let's say four years now they'll come to you and come to anyone with some experience and they'll ask them I want to get my money back in four years tell me some mutual funds there tell me some stocks when you suggest them that you should not go in equity they'll say that how else can I you know collect that much money in four years then there's a bit of wrong planning in on their part right so either you should increase your time duration or you should decrease your goal you can't do both at the same time that's the problem there they are punching above their weight all the time yeah it doesn't work you have to lower your dreams and lower your standards of living future standards of living whatever to do that you are a physicist you used your you know mathematics and analytical skills to learn investing and that's what you brought forward you rely a lot on data so how do you utilize that data to make your investing decisions I mean what are some some discoveries that you made that other people cannot you know discover so I I would say um all this number crunching has taught me lessons about risk about Market risk so people are always talking in the media about the market volatility is high now Market volatility is lower it doesn't happen if you actually look at the data and if you plot Market volatility versus time it will be a flat line Market volatility is always constant okay whether it's five years three years or 30 years there's always been a constant and one of the most important lessons I've learned is there is actually no prove that long term investing in equity will work OK all this power of compounding and stay invested that's all fine but there's no guarantee that it will work yeah all it offers you is that there is a reasonable chance of beating inflation okay that doesn't mean you will get the return you want yeah people expect 15 return yeah that is not the job of the equity Market the past tells us that whatever is the current inflation the equity can offer us premium above that yeah but that is very different from your return expectation so Equity can give you nine percent and if you expected fifteen twelve percent and invested less then you will not have enough money yeah so that's where we must learn that ah when they actually tell you in the disclaimer that the past performance is not representative of future performance they mean it so in the mutual fund industry actually means what they say in small font they don't that mean that much what they say in large font so you should revert our way of thinking but so those are lessons that I've learned from looking at past data but that does not mean if you stay away from Equity people always take extreme reactions when I say this they say oh there are no guarantees then why should I invest yeah then I ask them where is the guarantee that you will be you'll stay married when you marry there's no guarantee or marriage in work yeah when you join a course there's no guarantee that you will pass it there's no guarantee you will you know get a job you want so why are you asking guarantees and investing there are no guarantees in anything you do so that's true for investing as well but there is enough data to tell you that there is the risks are reasonable unmanageable that is all you want the risk should not be so high that you cannot manage it yeah so as long as you give enough time you can manage the risk with Equity investing and that's why people say stay invested for long term and so on that doesn't mean you should have Rosy ideas of you know the graph moving up like that's nice and smooth and and so on so and the other thing I've learned is about sequence of returns that is the same fund you start an sip in January I start an sip in July yeah he starts an sip in December we compare notes after three years after five years our our experiences can be very different true your return can be positive mind can be negative it can be very very high so that's the sequence of returns it's also called timing luck in the market so when you start and when you end depends on what path the nav follows for you and me so it's very very different so we'll have to combat that how do you combat it just like you can't take your marriage for granted anything you have to work on your relationship you have to work on your portfolio people are people are always in this LIC mode they because when you start an LIC policy you know that you're going to pay premium for the next 15 years so people say tell me which mutual fund can I start an sip for 15 years no it doesn't work like that it's not going to be the same mutual fund that is where the index investing makes a difference if you want to do all these gymnastics then you will have to be either ready to shuffle mutual funds actively manage your portfolio or stick with simple index funds you're done you don't need to worry about fund management risks so these are some of the lessons that life and numbers are taught me so speaking of guarantee a lot of people my father's age people may be your age who are who have seen the the government job era the job security era today that thing is almost negligible so I it's okay to hear the guarantee word from those people because though they have lived the guarantee while alive and uh you know they've invested in LIC policies that comes with a sovereign guarantee government bonds also come with a sovereign guarantee but uh do you think it's strange that when we hear the word guarantee from youngsters oh yes that's it's it's it's sad to see that people still want it see um the the problem is many of us don't understand basic economics uh people say that in the 1990s PP of rate was ppf ETF was 12 14 you would get LIC annuities for 13 and so on but that happened because the government was nearly bankrupt yeah the government became bankrupt in the early 90s and uh unfortunately in the debt markets uh the the more bankrupt you are the more interest people will demand from you yeah when you cannot pay more they will want you to pay they will want higher interest rates yeah and that's how it wasn't until the 90s and then the 2000s things changed so India has gradually shed its communist ah policies and it has become more and more capitalist whether it's good or not is another matter it's debatable but what it means is that all our investments have become Market linked known whether it's PP or VP of Guild trades everything has become Market leaks and if you look at the long term it's actually fallen down yes today interest rates are increasing RBI the report rate is increasing but that's not going to be there for it's it's going to increase but it's going to the the trend is going to be down yeah so we have to prepare for that and uh yeah youngster should not look at what their parents did or what their grandparents did that's a different era and most importantly it's not about returns their lifestyle was much more subdued yeah today everybody wants to live it up yeah whatever their income they want to live it up they say and social media they look at all these images of you know oh this guy has gone for a holiday in Thailand I will go further and Australia I'll go Australia and beat him and that kind of mentality is there the spending is too much that is the problem and if you accompany that with the want of guaranteed returns is a recipe for disaster true so uh speaking of uh government bonds and things that do come with a guarantee these days do you think that guarantee still means something I mean uh what if LIC goes bankrupt so will the government be able to pay off everything it's very unlikely that they uh that's what I said there are risks and there are reasonable risks buying an LIC annuity if I need it that's that's key if I need it there's no problem in fact I will have to I have an NPS and I will have to buy an annuity when I retire so I'll probably use LIC assuming it will still be around at that time and I think that that's a reasonable risk to take because that's like they say there are institutions which are too big to fail LIC is too big to fail SBI HDFC I see I see I say those are all institutions which are too big to fail so that's a reasonable risk to manage but but what I am hinting is uh when people say I am I'm buying lse because it has a sovereign guarantee ah that you should that is fine that argument is fine but are you buying it because you need it yeah that is the problem see I can buy an LIC policy after retirement for annuity yeah to get a pension that's no problem there I would prefer that you know instead of a private insurer for an annuity but I should not buy it that when I'm young and say I'm getting guaranteed returns uh and buy a policy and mix my insurance and investing before retirement that's bad true so it's the question the problem is people are they they're emotional about the wrong things you should be emotional about the right things for that you need little bit data you should look at all you need to do is look at how your lifestyle has changed over the past five years true some tracking of bear tracking of expenses if you do people you you can see that all our lifestyles have increased at about eight to ten percent at the rate of expenses have increased most of it has come from lifestyle creep lifestyle changes and not just uh you know because of the Dal travel increase in inflation and so on that is okay that is about six percent or so roughly approximately because of fuel costs but that's what we need to be looking at we need to my lifestyle is changing can I get rid of my start smartphone ah just because I've retired can I get rid of my cable connection my Ott platforms just because I've retired then that would be your failure right I mean in terms of planning so we have to maintain our lifestyle yeah or the other thing is don't think twice before spending and don't enhance your lifestyle just for the sake of it yeah so then it's a question of need then it doesn't matter whether you're looking for Guarantee or Capital link Market linked resistance or you made a very good point about lifestyle inflation people when you know when people see the data in the news the inflation uh the new number is 7.1 percent people think okay our mutual fund is you know capable of giving 12 plus percent but uh the the formula that builds the inflation number consists of three major ah ingredients the fuel cost clothing and food all three are rising at 12 so you know people plan with seven percent keeping in mind seven percent inflation but in reality majority of their expenses are being raised by 12 percent every year so we have to at least expect 12 percent and that will only come when we you know reconsider our needs a lower our expectations and manage our risk true yeah true the the thing is that 19 people want to do freelancing they want to do that's a good thing very nice to see but but when it comes to investing I believe when a youngster uh 18 or 20 year old wants to invest there for the wrong reasons they can be for the wrong reasons one reason could be I'll generate this much return and then you know I'll feel good about myself so that is that will ultimately land you in losses true so because a sense of maturity has yet to be developed true the same thing is with that's how I see trading as well many people get into trading and they do it because they want to get rich quick it never works like that trading is a lifetime job you learn you have to learn the markets the markets teach you about its risks the risk in day-to-day trading is very very different from the debate investing long term investing risk because the Dynamics are very different so ah it takes a lifetime to learn it yeah and if you look at if you ask any big Trader they will tell you I have lost most of my money at some point in time I've recovered but I did lose it so you're gonna have to bear those big losses and then only then go through that Evolution but people want they see all these Facebook ads about uh passive income from Stock Market trading I don't know how that works the only person who makes passive income is the guy who sells the course yeah so that is very dangerous yeah because it's not the it's not going to change your social station it's just going to give you some spending money here and there to do something extra I think that is wrong I think people young people should have a long term view like Jeff deso says look at your life over 30 years 40 years and think of where you want to be and work towards that don't think about the next one year yeah that's not how wealth is made yeah I just remembered a great example uh when I was little and whenever I go I used to go out and see there's a bridge being built or there's a shopping mall being built I used to ask my parents or I used to ask my myself that okay in two months if I come come here again I should see this you know fully functional and then I would get disappointed that it's still the same it looks still the same the road hasn't been built the building hasn't risen and then I realized that okay big things do take time they will not be built over overnight but I suddenly remember because that you know kept my expectations in check so whenever there's a new government project around my neighborhood I tell tell myself okay this is not for me maybe this is for my kids true that's a good example yes so um regarding the inflation that you asked me so the thing is that our day-to-day expenses inflation is about seven eight percent maybe but the danger is that many services in India are not regulated Health Hospital expenses in India are not regulated at all they can be anything same with the school fees and so on so these are increasing at the rate of 10 12 14 yeah so there's a point Beyond which you can't expect too much return you can't expect to beat 14 inflation yeah if you're lucky you can but that's not going to be a the risks Associated is no longer reasonable for that so there you have to compensate by investing more yeah that that's something that what happens is financial advisors are scared to tell the two clients invest more because they're scheduled run away yeah so we need to invest as much as possible and that the only way we can do is balance our spending today and so that we have we can fund our needs for tomorrow okay so uh you have a you know good investing experience what are some examples of your best and worst uh Investments um I don't think I have a best investment yet I see my life is not fluctuated like that it's been more or less I always looked at my needs and invested probably I would say that um if I had to do it all over again I'd probably get rid of my active funds and replace them all with an index fund okay the biggest reason is that if something happens to me today my wife can just take over that without worrying about uh you know which fund manager is doing better which active fund is doing better and any advisor can look at that portfolio and continue that without so the investments will not be disturbed yeah it can just continue across and Beyond me that is one and also for me today my I have my wealth has grown a little bit so I don't care about which fund works three star four star I don't care but the The Simple Choice which I keep telling to young people but they can keep asking me why don't you uh invest in active one I mean why are you investing in active funds why are you not investing in passive funds the reason is my portfolio has become so big that if I add a passive fund to it it'll be too small it will not make any impact but I tell young people don't make the mistakes I did yeah I I was still I did the same mistakes that anybody does looking at stars looking at recent performance uh that is the biggest mistake people do and they look at the last one year one and a half year two year performance and then they put in money yeah and if they and after they put in money the fund will drop it's the law of averages you can't ah it's a hot hand fallacy you cannot say that the first five balls have been hit for Force therefore the last Bond will also be hit for four it never works like that but that's the mistake I've made those mistakes and I like to think that uh I mean I could have done better true so uh speaking of picking mutual funds I saw one of your videos where you said just pick any mutual fund uh don't go overboard don't add too many funds in your portfolio and you said uh pickup fund that is not so popular ah why is that see it's like the code from The Matrix where agent Smith says that human beings are like viruses they see something good and they go and heard on it they accumulate and they destroy it and then they move on to that so when this when mutual fund investors see some good performing of mutual fund that outperforms significantly everybody goes there yeah and then the aom increases the fund manager faces the heat yeah and he cannot be as Nimble as before he cannot change talks he cannot churn the portfolio and then the performance drops the same thing happened to prashan Jain in 2009 after the Congress government got re-elected the markets moved up OK the markets reacted positively and then there's a lot of inflow into his two funds HDFC equity and HDFC top 200 at that time those with the names and the churn rate the ability in which he was churning the stocks it dramatically dropped and those mutual funds became more and more large cap oriented okay because he that's the only way he would maintain liquidity yeah and handle the portfolio so that's why I said stay away from popular fund managers and popular mutual funds so that you are in a space where uh it's not I mean nobody gets note if the fund doesn't get noticed yeah so you can happily invest that was how paraporic flexi cap was yeah and when I started investing it as an nfo yeah and I thought okay um this is this doesn't have a banking Channel yeah to push fund the fund so it will remain quiet for some time but uh in the last few years it is tremendously grown but now again people are complaining oh they are not investing enough in Google Facebook it's going down so it's it's a I mean they have a short fuse in terms of expectations they just wanted to so my Junior was asking me about the fund that is not performing that was equipment so I'm happy I'm happy if people move away from it yeah so uh speaking about unpopular advice popular mutual fund there's also a point to be considered that if a fund becomes too big people say that it's its ability to generate returns uh gets hindered do you think it's true if yes then how should we invest in a in one mutual fund for a very long term so if if that fund becomes too big what should we do I mean it's very hard to prove it I've tried to prove it that's very difficult to make a meaningful study to say that this because of the aom increase only the returns came down that's not possible because even today there are funds for example HDFC has a mid Cap Fund which has got a very large amount of AUM I forget the name um but it's doing well it's not it's not a stellar performer but it's doing quite well so it's very hard to prove it but it's just a matter of see the the problem is there are faces when all the mutual funds fall down then many people ask why is my mutual fund alone falling down no it's not your fund alone yeah the whole Market is falling so everything will fall that is okay but if there are some reasons where only your fund is falling then uh you should get rid of it so there are two choices one be an active investor yeah and be ready to switch funds every three four years because average it will keep moving up and down today there will be five star tomorrow it will be it'll drop down become five star again back down and so on you should be ready to switch or go through periods of under performance if you have the faith okay very few people have that anyway or simply be an index investor yeah be happy just forget about it you get some return very close to the index and you are happy and I think if the index is if we assume that the index is going to move up over the long term comfortably then all the funds even our average performer would do well yeah so that's why I said don't worry too much about which one you pick because it's not going to be the fund you're going to this is not a marriage yeah I mean it's a it's an acquaintance at best and you're going to change acquaintances for that you need to be professional about looking at a portfolio management the problem I see is that most people don't want to learn portfolio management yeah they don't want to look at it from the top so you should look at your need if you look at your Target Corpus you should look at your asset allocation then you should look at the assets and only then at the fund performance yeah people do the other way wrong yeah but they don't go beyond one performance yeah that is the problem okay so uh speaking of the new investors and considering the fact that more than 1995 percent of Indians don't have enough money to invest what would you suggest them how many mutual funds should they invest into I would say just one is enough just any sensex or Nifty ah not any I would say the ones with a reasonably low tracking error that is the one thing they should be looking at trying to increase income if they the income increases everything is fine in fact um I have seen this in my life and uh if advisor swapnil Kenda has also made this point that is let's say two people start one guy starts earning right after B let's say 22 Yeah and the other guys studies he does other you know higher education qualifies just like what I did when I went through the other guys only starts at 35 or 32.

The salaries will be very different yeah the guy who starts late will have a much better salary yeah and he can actually make up for the time lost yeah so I would say focus on trying to get your skills up make sure you are always employable you should be constantly employable either you should know how to do it on your own be an entrepreneur or you should be in demand if that is ok then you can spend some time without investing focusing on increasing your income you can always make up for it later okay but if you say this much is enough I'm not going to study further then would that would severely limit your ability to build wealth over the long term okay so just one fund uh is enough but the focus should be on increasing your income and when you have enough money then you can you know maybe think about uh adding a fund but no you can always make up for the lost time that's what I mean the point is people want to they are always fomo is a big problem if you look at all Financial ads fomo will be there have you invested in this have you not done this they will always try to push that for more button that is what we have to control it's you should tell yourself I am invested in the Nifty index I don't need to good look beyond that I'm fine I don't I don't need a mid cap I don't need a small cap they don't matter Nifty is good enough that control is the huge thing I don't because my friend is doing trading I don't need to do it yeah I I that control and that maturity is the biggest biggest problem reminded me of what uh Mr Rakesh jinjala said uh in during his last years someone asked asked him why don't you invest in crypto he said I don't have to go to every party so precisely yeah precisely that's a wonderful thing so uh you have a you are a physicist I can't even imagine what it's like to become one you have a job full-time job at IIT Madras and now you are into investing you make content around investing and which is very useful how do you manage both of these it has been a very uneven ride for me it's not been normal in the sense that um 10 years ago I was I started this website in May 2012.

a few months after that I was down with an autoimmune condition for the next one year I was almost bedridden I couldn't do much I couldn't teach I couldn't go to work against one so um learning about finances one way for me to get out of that funk it was I was in a very bad state of mind I thought this is how my life is going to be so it kept me occupied something to think about yeah but then after that I used to work on these calculators whenever I had time we have we have summer vacations winter vacations and so on so most of the content was made around that time and scheduled later on yeah so over the last few years I've learned the power of Delegation now I realized that I'm becoming old I cannot uh you know keep up at the same pace so now I have a team of people who wish to be anonymous there are there are people working in all the big tech tech companies all around the world and they helped me manage my site and they also produce content now most of them are Anonymous some of them they prefer their names they produce some products and so on so they maintain the site so I've learned to delegate it and I'm I'm looking forward to do something else now yeah I'm trying to because my if you look at my life I've done all the things that a physicist should not do I have looked worked in one area in of physics then stopped working on it and done something completely different then after a few years done something else so I would like to move on to something Beyond finance and do something else I don't know what that is I'm still waiting for what that calling is but I'm hoping that's it and so I've delegated it and I want to you know I'm shading my role as in free Finkel gradually okay so uh Matlab if I were to put it you are at the completion stage of a current phase see well I mean you've learned physics you've learned investing now you want to do something else see the thing I would say that completion meaning that I would like to do new things in the sense that um I have covered the basics yeah and if I do it again it will just be saying the same thing over and over and that repetition can be done by anybody I can delegate it to somebody what I I would at the moment like to do is to study more about Market risks okay it would not be uh immediately useful for day-to-day investing or investing in mutual funds whatever but I want to study the nature of the market risk how is it linked to chaos how is it linked to fractals what what can we do can we learn something useful from it okay that is something that the problem is that doesn't translate well into content yeah because very few people will read it yeah it it that's what happens with science and research you know it takes years and years for someone to finally find some conclusion that can be conveyed to the world but uh it's necessary if some some if some nobody will do it then we are going nowhere so those things will take computations and it will take you know I had to set the computer will take weeks to finish so I would rather do that privately and publish separately rather than on frequently help okay that's my plan so so we we got the sneak peek into what you are planning for yourself in the future so you teach some of the smartest kids in this country at IIT Madras do you think they also make some investing mistakes and are those mistakes similar to a common man's investing mistakes uh first of all I don't think the kids in IIT are smart it is just that um those kids have taken a decision to sacrifice their time and effort much more and much earlier than other people in the country yeah whether it comes to working for GE or any other entrance exam related to IIT or in IIT so they're not smart it's just that they've they spend so much time that they have accumulated some knowledge it looks like they're they're smart it's like what you have done if you if you do video editing alone yeah and nothing else after six months you're an expert yeah so that's that's how those kids are but other than that they're as normal as fallible as anybody else they have done they make the same mistakes or no don't make the mistakes as anybody else I don't see any difference okay the uh what I see today is that like I mentioned to you earlier young people are more interested in investing right yeah they don't want to invest the way that like their parents did of course there are many people who are still influenced by their parents but the number of people who want to do it right do it independently have also increased they're they're searching for content and that's how I I knew that was what I do at free even Cal will eventually work I knew that initially it was the many years where nothing happened nobody noticed free Finkel but eventually thanks to Google's machine learning has improved so much and you you don't have that kind of usual keywords stuffing that kind of SEO doesn't work I have been the biggest beneficiary of it and I've been able to cater to these kids who are looking for it so uh that's that's great I mean uh one one very important point that I'd like to discuss I I haven't had the chance to discuss in detail with any other uh expert yet do you think uh our expectations uh of wedding and you know our expenses are on wedding will hold us back will not uh make us achieve retirement plans I think so yes I think I'm I'm scared the uh I I'm scared to go to weddings these days to be honest because I see people are serving popcorn there are candy flosses there are drones flying yeah I mean I I just cannot I cannot stomach it there's too much and I ask about the expenses they say minimum 50 lakhs yeah in certain circles and that's a minimum and they have these huge photo shoots and so on most of it I would say don't spend because how much ever you spend your relatives are always going to find something to complain about the wedding it's always going to say this is this is bad that's bad you didn't do that well forget about that if you have enough money give it to the kids yeah let them start their career or start their family life in a you know solid Financial basis and say spend it well instead of but that's life I mean you're always going to have these pressures and it and it's infectious they I I overheard a conversation in IIT some years back there it is very trivial thing one guy who said that guy had ah two deserts in his daughter's reception so in my daughter's reception I'm going to have three digits that's how it's a very trivial thing but that's how people think and they want to outdo for no reason that's not you don't know that's not a goal nobody cares yeah right so yes it's going to be a problem yeah what is going to be a problem is that people want to change their social station the wrong way yeah they're only earning this much but they want to spend that much although they don't they want to spend that much and they and they borrow but if you want to change your social station you should do that by taking in risks with your career yeah ah it's a reasonable risk the right amount of risks and you should ah you know hold back your spending and ah you know even if you want to work somewhere as an intern without pay you should be ready to do that but people don't want that they want to they get the bonus it's gone and I usually go I go to these corporate meets and I ask them when does your money run out yeah yeah so I I I usually hear some people say some people say 20th 20th is very good these days it's a it's a record yeah okay so um if I go up North it becomes worse some people said one guy said third he said I run I get my salary on the first I run out of money on the third I said what are you doing how are you how are you even manage it that's how it is the spending has become too much everybody wants to change their social station by spending yeah that's never going to happen it you're going to go down that's the biggest problem we have so the reason I ask is because I see a lot of people uh you know borrowing money 20 lakhs 30 lakhs just to facilitate their wedding just to show that they can or you know three three desserts I know yes then the point that you made about kids that people you know they the the people who are spending 20 30 lakhs on marriage after borrowing money will again struggle to you know raise their children and then uh okay it's one thing to spend a lot of money on a wedding then at least people should understand we are not ready to have a kid yet so we should first you know pay our debt we should then start saving because in two three years we'll have to send them school so that whole planning is so messed up and sometimes I feel that why is it so difficult to understand it to me it feels it feels fairly simple to say that okay if I spend money I will not have money but it at the same time very difficult for people to understand yes it's a it's a big deal and if you have two children I think it's very difficult I I often say that inflation should be the best contraceptive one kid manageable two kids you're you're almost crude yeah three if because the second becomes twins you are done for what happens like what you said if you borrow and for a wedding you're going to spend the next five six years repaying that debt so you're scared about starting a family by the time you become old yeah you can't natural childbirth is gone you have all these fertility clinics everywhere now if you go via the fertility clinic minimum is twins yeah you never get one very rare if you get twins and to start with your your life is sealed that's it you can forget about you have to work until 60 70.

So that's where these things matter they will pile up that's that's the real power of compounding I would say negative compounding we should say that yes you should that's why I keep telling people don't do anything spend one hour doing nothing every day yeah put all your gadgets away maybe go for walk do some meditation but think about your life what is it I want to do think about all the nightmares that can occur to you it's very easy to dream dream forget it you will get it but think about all the bad things that can happen to you and how are you fighting for those bad things for example men there are I have uh I have a we had a PhD student a few years back in the department he went trekking he lost his footing and fell okay to death his parents were farmers they had no money this guy is the only one spending spending for his expenses and giving them money from his typhen yeah and what would they do so those are the things that those are the risks we need to think about what would happen so I I say that even if you are young and not married doesn't mean you don't need a term insurance policy you should look for your parents are your parents financially independent buy a term insurance policy put your parent answers normally they'll get something yeah so that's that thing that happens only when you think about yourself I'm not saying be selfish but think about all the bad things that can happen to you and how you can fight it but we are always thinking about what the other guy is doing how much return you get here Rama so we are being distracted by uh too much information and I feel uh thinking about bad things is not very well received in the community if you tell your friends okay last night I thought uh you know what if I died you people your parents friend friends everyone will tell you why do why do you always think bad things but I think there's a fine line between you know rationally uh you know imagining situations that are very much possible and overthinking correct so I I don't call this overthinking and I'm I I do this myself maybe not one or maybe more than one hour because that's what my personality has become but I always keep Imagining the worst case scenarios what if this could happen yeah but it's it's such a burden sometimes but I still don't call it overthinking no it's it's overthinking when it ah when you don't do anything when you when it paralyzes you uh negative thoughts should force you into action yeah whatever thoughts should force you into action you should do something to you know as a as an arrangement to fix that risk then you're fine that's currently a minus 50 50 I take 50 action uh yeah but yeah it's very important to think about those things and people people don't do it so any any last piece of advice that you want to give to our viewers oh I one lesson life has taught me is don't give advice even if somebody asks for it the reason for reason is uh I always believe that we are all victims of our experiences my lessons in life are based on my journey yeah and just like the Sip started on different dates can have different returns all of us are different Tom Cruise said something wonderful he said I have never seen a normal human being yeah everybody has a story and everybody's story is different so whatever advice I would give assuming that the mistakes that I made will be the mistakes you make or anybody else make it's always very dangerous so I so only the one thing that I've learned is that we should be ready to course correct at any point in time there are no set plans if things change we change if I mean if that like we say if the if the data changes the opinion changes but don't change opinions before the data so we should be ready to be flexible that's all I can okay thank you so much lastly uh for people who are building their retirement plans let's say some my let's say my goal is 20 years away uh what would you suggest them because if I were to retire today and today is let's say 20 2008 subprime crisis my retirement would be screwed so what do you suggest how do they navigate that yeah there are a couple of ways to do it the the first thing is to invest as much as possible like I like I always say I don't know if I can say it like invest like your assets on fire yeah at all times so accumulate as much as possible and uh decide on what your asset allocation is going to be after retirement years before retirement okay so um when I started out I always thought that 60 Equity is too much for me okay but uh because my net Health has grown today I'm comfortable with 60 equity and now I want to have 60 Equity throughout my life that means that 40 fixed income should be enough right to handle most of my needs in retirement so things change like I said you have to adapt but for that you need to plan uh you must be ready to have my thumb rule is at least for first 15 years in retirement you should have enough fixed income assets to get inflation protected income okay if you do that then you can handle those kind of negative uh market returns uh Market you know sideways markets and so on at least for 15 years but then you'll have to manage the rest of the portfolio actually so one important point is the way Indians are managing retirement money is dramatically shifting so our parents generation 100 fixed income fixed deposits small savings schemes annuities and so on now that's changing to me little bit into mutual funds debt mutual funds so more and more my generation will be having a proper bucket strategy with very little dependence on pension your generation will be even more so we don't have the necessary expertise to cater to that right we also don't have the market history to understand the risks yeah so it's a very dangerous situation to be in so we should Safeguard as much as possible with fixed income assets but also have some Equity Capital let us say 20 to 30 percent not more than that to handle inflationary ah increases in retirement so it's a very tricky situation yeah so one one important point that you made uh retirement planning has been dramatically shifting so people earlier would invest in LIC policies and you know they had fixed job security uh everything uh even today if you look at our parents I mean my parents uh and my parents uh of my friends and family they would you know that the go-to investment that they would pick is either real estate uh or uh you know I need anything FD or something like that but even then if they want to invest in mutual funds they would go 100 in equity so why do you think is that I think that's that's the advice they get is the problem because the people in that generation they want to ask advice to people you ask advice you're always going to be sold them bad mutual fund most of the times and you're all uh that's that's where they need to do a little bit of research or you need to work with a semi registered investment advisor who's fee only without any conflict of interest but many people are not willing to do that they don't want to ah you know spend that money for advice and do that so it's a tricky situation which requires some thought and ah my problem is it's okay if the guy has got a lot of assets elsewhere yeah and 100 Equity being the only fund is okay as long as it's a small portion of the portfolio yeah what is now happening is that that is increasing alarmingly it's a it's a changing face as we speak and more and more assets are going to be in ah in the in mutual funds after retirement and that's going to be difficult managing because if you have these sudden shocks either a crash or a series of negative returns uh the retiree is going to be in trouble so that requires careful careful planning true thank you so much sir pleasure agreeing to do this and uh I hope you have a good investing research ahead thank you so much wish you all the best I hope you got to learn a lot from this episode it is time that I ask you for a favor do share this episode in your friends and family WhatsApp groups and after you've done it come back here and write it in the comments that you've shared this episode I'll personally respond and appreciate your effort also download cred app from the link given in the description and in the top comment use cred app to pay all your utility and credit card bills you will earn credit coins in return which you can then use to get huge discounts on your favorite products trust me they are discounts like you've never seen I like cred app because it encourages you to be disciplined to pay your bills on time and it rewards you to do the same so make sure you download cred and share this episode I'll see you in the sixth episode of jagruk talks season 2 powered by cred bye-bye jelly ham Papas podcast [Music]

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How to ‘actually’ plan retirement ft. Pattu @PersonalFinanceCalculators | CRED Jagruk Talks S2E5

I want to say something to you but allow me to clarify first I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy yet I feel I have to say these words because words are powerful your parents will die your loved ones will get hospitalized you are not immune to accidents and you were never born special whatever can happen will happen it's Murphy's law what I mean is do not wait for something bad to happen to finally get the motivation to prepare for life this is a story of a physicist who studied 14 more years after school to finally land his first job a physicist who never imagined something like this would ever happen in his family this is the story of Dr M patta bhiraman also known as pattu hi I'm pattu from previous [Music] true wealth has nothing to do with money but I told myself I'm never going to be in that position again but two is a professor of physics at IIT Madras who started learning personal finance out of fear his interest in the field of finance and his background as a researcher allowed him to dive deep into it in 2012 he launched his website called freefinkel.com shot for free financial calculators but two has developed several smart financial calculators that are used by not only common people but also used by sebi registered financial planners his Flagship product is the robo advisory template that helps anyone build their financial plan for retirement in a smart Excel sheet he also teaches personal finance through his in-depth data-driven research articles and his YouTube videos and as a matter of fact I personally learned majority of my personal finance lessons from his content and finally I am traveling to Chennai if you have a beautiful sunset to meet him and talk to him about life investing about the mistakes that we make unknowingly that have huge repercussions and how can we successfully build wealth it is truly an honor and a privilege to be able to do this with him so we are in Chennai so yeah number one um foreign but it's taking a little getting used to it and yeah hello sir hello before we proceed unnecessary disclaimer a podcast English because Hindi is not pattu's first language however subtitles this is talks season 2 episode 5 powered by cred let's listen to the conversation [Music] [Applause] [Music] so firstly I'd like to ask you you are a physicist you teach at IIT Madras what was your childhood like so I'm trying to you know understand how did you move from uh being a physicist now you are a finance educator how did it turn out to be yeah so first of all thank you for this opportunity pleasure is awesome so I grew up not too far from here in a big mansion and a huge joint family in fact the my extended family stays with me in a system of flats even today so for me my cousins are my brothers and sisters I was the only child okay I spent a lot of time alone in fact I believe that too much socializing is bad for you because it doesn't allow you to become creative so you know my parents allowed me to do whatever I wanted to do I always wanted to do something creative and the physics seemed like a good idea and they did not have any second thoughts about me doing physics it was in the early 90s there were many friends and relatives who said um you have only child how can you allow him to do physics you should you know get a loan and put him in an engineering college or you know in a mbbs seat or something like that but they let me do it they let me follow my dreams and one thing led to the other and I soon became physicist so uh what was your early career so the path to becoming a physicist is very long so I finished school in 92 1992 and I got my full-term job in 2006.

So okay so three years of BSE two years of MSE five years of PhD then a couple of postdoctoral stints and then you get a job so it's a long drawn process okay so uh have you have you seen a show called Big Bang Theory yes I have seen a Snippets of it not too much the main character of that show Sheldon is a theoretical physicist yes yes it helps kids understand that science is accessible to them yeah they can also do what they are doing yeah exactly so uh after your job how did you become a professor at IIT Madras so um I had these two research stints one in Germany one in Indira Gandhi Center of atomic research in kalpakkam after that I became a assistant professor in IIT in 2006 and since then I've been there okay so how did you get into investing I mean you create so much in-depth data driven content so you're probably the only creator that I have seen who believes in data and other people can feel it that you have done some research behind it and you bust a lot of myths around investing so how did you find that passion oh it's a long story I wouldn't call it a passion I just did it out of fear I would say because um I got my first tenure job uh in the Indira Gandhi Center for Atomic research in early 2006 five days after my first salary that was my first ever full-time salary my father's uh leg broke on its own okay because of uh he had a rare form of cancer and then after one month his other leg also broke so it was like until that time I was I knew nothing about uh Family Life Family responsibilities nothing I was a head in the clouds guy I all I knew was my lab I've just come home to sleep oh and so I knew nothing about a responsibility that then everything fell on me so I had to take care of it I and I knew nothing about money management and the hospital bills started piling up thankfully um I was married by then because I had a very nice brother-in-law who gave me a interest-free loan of about it amounted to three lakhs at relaxed in 2006 is a lot of money today true and uh uh so I realized that I was doing something wrong I had my father had no health insurance so I ran and got health insurance for my mother yeah and so that policy still continues to this day okay so three lakhs in debt basically that was my net worth minus three I started with that I it came to such a point that like you see in the movies my mother actually told me you can sell my mangalsutra if you want to you know make have money for treatment and so on I was because of a technical glitch I was out of salary for about three months okay so before I switched jobs yeah so it became to such a point that I mean I was all the money was just going away and thankfully I was able to get into IIT and this thing stabilized a little bit but I told myself I'm never going to be in that position again where I am going to be borrowing because I don't have money and therefore I started thinking what is it you need to do yeah so first you need to figure out what are the things you need money for what do you need money for in three months six months 10 months and so on it was uh soon enough my uh I mean we had a family started but I didn't realize that we have this first year ceremony right for the child so the first birthday is always celebrated it's a big but I did not uh know that I had to plan for it after the child was born okay it was oh I realized oh in three in the next two months we're going to have this big birthday coming up so I need where am I going to get money from so I told myself never again I'm gonna plan I'm gonna make sure when I need money I'm gonna have it and that's how it started and uh because math is not a you know it's not scary for me because I need math for physics so I started doing the calculations in Excel when I started doing Excel I mean I did not even know how to punch one plus one equal to two there I just learned and thankfully there are so many good resources available online there are so many forums you can learn as long as you know what you want to type in Excel you can find it many people just want to learn Excel yeah that doesn't work yeah you should know what you want to do then it works very well so that's how it so I mean uh both our careers Rohan is our editor he's just 18 right now and I also started as a video editor he also started as a video editor and that's how we learned video editing we did not have to pay any money to someone and we just you know uh searched on YouTube how to make a card how to color grade how to roots and that is a very uh good point because a lot of people say that we want to learn video editing so they are always looking for a defined chapter wise course but sometimes you you may not need that you just need to do one thing simple thing and you can figure out the rest later so that's a very good approach so while while learning investing I mean investing learning investing and learning video editing are two very different things and I feel latter is very difficult so what are the challenges that you faced uh because you were determined that you won't ever have to find yourself in that situation but then how how much time did it take you to uh firstly get to that comfortable situation and what what what were the challenges because you obviously had a science background uh you had you knew math but you know investing is a whole different area so how did you navigate that see um first of all the math and the analytics they are useful to certain points to understand certain truths about or practicalities about investing but day to day daily investing doesn't need that yeah otherwise only the super intelligent or you know super nerdy people who make money that's thankfully that's not the case so what I did was I was reading a lot all I did was I let my I had NPS so I was one of the first set of government employees who had NPS and at that time the uh the money The NPS account was not even set up it was not put into the market so it was basically held at the employer at earning some eight percent so what I did was I was just that was my only investment okay I did not invest anything so I just learned the mistake people do is they first invest and then ask questions yeah they first do something I want something for saving tax so let's just you know I want to give some proof to my employer yeah next week so I'm going to invest something and that's how the portfolio becomes cluttered it's a with a mistake start piling up thankfully I did not do that I didn't do anything I was just learning and then I slowly started uh buying my first mutual fund in fact there are two mutual fund offices in this road HDFC mutual fund is right next to us okay and there is sundara mutual fund right in the next street okay so I used to come to these offices and buy I did not even know at that time aside from my first investment that you have to you can buy things through a distributor and at that time it was the fall the 2008 the market was falling I did not know anything about all that I just started on a 1500 rupees Sip and slowly it started from there I would say I didn't do anything but learned that time of 6 months 12 months where I learned without doing much help me not make mistakes make big mistakes where I could not come come out from I did not buy an LIC policy or that kind of but the one thing is I probably I did not have my father was not around at that time to tell me to do those things probably if he had never got sick and if he were alive today I I would not be here I would have been that guy with the only fixed income in my portfolio with the 10 LIC policies or whatever so it's just I would say luck that's how it it's life yeah so uh after you witnessed the 20 uh sorry 2008 crisis how did you navigate because a lot of people you know pull out their money at times like this so how did you handle that situation so first of all I did not know it I did not know the market was falling I never eat to this day thankfully I don't see the nav or I don't see the market levels I just invest ah but what I did notice what was my the after the the the markets fell and then it recovered yeah but it required in 2009 sometimes yeah but from 2009 onwards to 2013 late 2013 the market went nowhere it was just up and down during that period I noticed uh that every day I would login my portfolio was always red yeah it was always in losses yeah so I was wondering what to do I I used to tell this to my wife and mother and they were scared they said what are you doing I mean you're probably making a big mistake here but I thankfully I learned to be emotional about retirement I always tell people that you can't remove emotions from anything everything that we do whether it is science or investing it's all some emotions are always going to be there too right so it's better to uh exploit those emotions in your favor instead of being emotional about my investments being read all the damn I thought of of being emotional about my retirement I told myself if I pull out now I will again find myself in that debt situation I was just a couple of years ago and I don't want that I want to build money so that I'm never going to be dependent on anybody ever again so that helped me through those five years of sideways markup for the first five years my returns were zero yeah then suddenly the market picked up and I had to learn my I looked at my portfolio one day and I thought what is this it's too much money then I had to learn units Place tens place and I had to count and then I realized that every day the market was gaining what I was investing every month yeah and then I that's when it hit me that's how Equity investing is you have to keep investing without worrying about when the market is going to move up or not it will someday when it changes your life will change and then just like that my life changed yeah so so during uh the four years that four or five years the market did not move a lot of people find it very hard to maintain patience so do you think being emotional about retirement and you know remembering your past days uh made you patient yes I would say I I actually had a very good piece of advice when I went for my IIT interview I met my teacher and he asked me how I was and I told him sir my father has come and Dad and said but to be happy that you're getting all these problems when you're young yeah I was like what are you seeing I mean come on man I mean I'm I'm in trouble and you're telling me to be happy he said 10 years later you will know that you have enough experience to handle problems later very well yeah so it is that experience that so it's it's somewhere it's lucky I mean that's how Okay so I've seen your logo uh free thin Cal logo what is the story behind that logo it's really uh it's an inverted percentage sign it's like saying that we can't get rid of our shadow our shadow is going to always move around with us yeah so if the ah just like that the risk is the shadow of return you can't get rid of risk whatever return you get whether it's fixed or not fixed there's always going to be some risk yeah so I wanted to have some kind of a so the percentage stands for return the inverted percentage is a way of saying you have to look at risks okay okay so uh talking about risks especially during 2009 to 13 uh obviously some you know some sometimes that thought must have crossed your mind okay how much risk am I taking yeah will it ever move up so how did you manage risk uh at the initial levels and how do you manage risk now see thankfully I had some time looking at inflation I had a I mean I was looking at my expenses and I projected my expenses down the line how how much my expenses would increase yeah um that told me that look there is no other way to handle my lifestyle in future or maintain my current lifestyle in future if I don't get a return higher than that because you have to pay taxes so my entire portfolio has to have a return or a growth rate higher than that of inflation after tax yeah so that was the thing that kept telling me hold on hold on be patient be patient and when I look at the past data and if you look at the sensex and plot it in let's say a logarithmic chart you can see that there is a step and then there's a this flat yeah it's for years and years it's flat and then it moves up so you don't know when it's going to move so you got to just paint so looking at past data has always helped me understand that the future is going to be at least like that yeah if not something very different so are there uh some people in your life who have influenced you in a great way they may not be from uh your field but uh you know it they made a turning point in your life there are many of them for example I had a wonderful teacher Mrs Bina gokla in 11th and 12th standard she thought as English and she made the subject come alive she taught us so many things about uh living loving hating and so on and that is when I realized my calling my calling is to teach I realize that's that's when I'll be happy it doesn't matter what I teach whether it is physics or Finance or the movies of gurud or whatever it is the subject is doesn't matter I just like to connect to an audience she was one who kind of made me listen to my passion okay my calling I should say then there have been so many people in finance as well one is PV subramaniam of subramani.com yeah so he has been in the markets for 43 44 years so he's been investing in stocks before the sensex even began I mean even the data began before 1979 so whatever analysis or inferences I make from hours of date data crunching he knows by just living through the markets yeah and he talks about risk and many people today don't give him credit but he was the one who was the first to say put it in an index fund don't today we have all these index investing and that's all popular but he was the one who first said don't spend too much time worrying about which mutual fund to buy just buy an index fund you're done okay so he's been a big influence for uh on me and also he is he had this audience uh ah trying to do DIY ready to do DIY and when he referred my blog at the early stages in 2012-13 so that audience you know also started following me okay so that so PVC Romanian is one influence the other is uh inspirational person is Melvin Joseph Melvin Joseph he's in uh he's a Regis semi registered investment advisor he's a fee only advisor working in Navi Mumbai so he's one of the first in the country and he had left a cushy insurance job and started out on his own doing this and he helps ah you know people he helps the Common Man Okay many financial advisors work with only High net worth individuals nris and so on but he has placed his uh price uh you know at a level so low that anyone can access it ok and he also helps children ah empowers children ah he helps other people pay for their education and so on through and initiative called key kids education and you okay so more than three thousand kids are being benefited by this so he's a guy because of his own Enterprise he's he's also very compassionate and he's also helped so many couples um with their finances and also uh widows and widows with their term insurance claim okay if there's any problem with the claims they go to him he does it pro bono all that is done proposed so he's a very inspirational wonderful wonderful especially with the insurance claims uh it's an ugly situation in India unfortunately true so that's one and also anybody who works without expectations inspire me for example I have at home the caretaker of my mother she works very hard she's very sincere and she works without expectation and that's always something that drives me uh that's been that said in our scriptures in Gita you work don't expect rewards when you expect rewards that's when all the problems start true true so though that's what inspired wonderful so this is a very simple and straightforward question what do you think is more important saving investing or earning I would say now I would say life has taught me that earning is the key okay first you earn because if you if you don't earn you can't invest or save but just don't spend too much okay then only you can do both because saving and investing you should know when to save and when to invest you save for short-term goals and invest for long-term goals you take on Market risk so that's fine but earning is the key so I would say young earners should focus on their skills and they should focus on trying to increase their income over the long term the problem with young people is I mean there's always been a problem with young people I've had problems when I was young that's when that's just the generational thing but they just wanted fast they want results too fast that's a problem you don't get that with money true true last night I got a message from my junior his one year Junior to me and I always sends me screenshot of his mutual fund portfolio and he says why is it charging me expense ratio I want to withdraw it I asked him why do you want to withdraw it he said it's been months it is stable I don't know it will ever go up so please suggest me some other Mutual then I wrote to him that that's not how mutual funds work so now he's asking me how does how do mutual funds work and that you know brings our first point people invest and then start to learn that is a very big problem I mean the today we have a serious problem because most people in the capital markets if they either direct Equity or Equity mutual funds they all come in in the last three four years almost 70 percent of them and they have all been influenced by the bull run that we have seen prior to March 2020 and then after from April 2020 to October 2021 that is so that's been their experience they think that's how their future will always be it will never be like that the worst thing see a crash is not a problem you don't have to worry about a crash because a crash is like too many people believing that something bad is going to happen and pulling out money yeah so thus at the same rate they will come back in yeah if the big crash will always be required followed by a big record worry but after the recovery there will be a Slowdown that happened in 2009 to 2013 that's happening now and that's the scary part because you're losing time yeah you lose five six years of your time if you don't plan well that time is lost forever because there are so many people who say I want returns in three years I want returns in four years that's and they don't have asset allocation all the money is in equity yeah you don't do that for three four years that's I mean it's just potluck you will get any return you want that's very dangerous that's where the planning is not there so what would you advise people uh who are in this phase of investing when the market is moving sideways it is going absolutely nowhere and you know maybe it will stay like that for two or three more years and that's what happened with you back in uh 2009 uh to 13.

So what would you advise such people who have entered the market after 2020 let's say uh now they will be they'll be disappointed like my friend is so what what do you suggest them to do I think first a pause and look at your own needs yeah so personal finance starts from us yeah why are you investing when do you need the money if you want the money in the next five years seven years don't invest in any form of equity okay stick with ordinary fds RDS that's fine nothing much is going to happen in five years have a long term view English money iniquity only for your retirement in your financial Independence for 15 years 20 years then you don't have to worry about what happens in the market in the next few years yeah so you have to plan so that and make sure you have enough money for short-term needs and then put a money away for long term needs that's what yeah but the the concern most people have is they want to you know do something with that money after let's say four years now they'll come to you and come to anyone with some experience and they'll ask them I want to get my money back in four years tell me some mutual funds there tell me some stocks when you suggest them that you should not go in equity they'll say that how else can I you know collect that much money in four years then there's a bit of wrong planning in on their part right so either you should increase your time duration or you should decrease your goal you can't do both at the same time that's the problem there they are punching above their weight all the time yeah it doesn't work you have to lower your dreams and lower your standards of living future standards of living whatever to do that you are a physicist you used your you know mathematics and analytical skills to learn investing and that's what you brought forward you rely a lot on data so how do you utilize that data to make your investing decisions I mean what are some some discoveries that you made that other people cannot you know discover so I I would say um all this number crunching has taught me lessons about risk about Market risk so people are always talking in the media about the market volatility is high now Market volatility is lower it doesn't happen if you actually look at the data and if you plot Market volatility versus time it will be a flat line Market volatility is always constant okay whether it's five years three years or 30 years there's always been a constant and one of the most important lessons I've learned is there is actually no prove that long term investing in equity will work OK all this power of compounding and stay invested that's all fine but there's no guarantee that it will work yeah all it offers you is that there is a reasonable chance of beating inflation okay that doesn't mean you will get the return you want yeah people expect 15 return yeah that is not the job of the equity Market the past tells us that whatever is the current inflation the equity can offer us premium above that yeah but that is very different from your return expectation so Equity can give you nine percent and if you expected fifteen twelve percent and invested less then you will not have enough money yeah so that's where we must learn that ah when they actually tell you in the disclaimer that the past performance is not representative of future performance they mean it so in the mutual fund industry actually means what they say in small font they don't that mean that much what they say in large font so you should revert our way of thinking but so those are lessons that I've learned from looking at past data but that does not mean if you stay away from Equity people always take extreme reactions when I say this they say oh there are no guarantees then why should I invest yeah then I ask them where is the guarantee that you will be you'll stay married when you marry there's no guarantee or marriage in work yeah when you join a course there's no guarantee that you will pass it there's no guarantee you will you know get a job you want so why are you asking guarantees and investing there are no guarantees in anything you do so that's true for investing as well but there is enough data to tell you that there is the risks are reasonable unmanageable that is all you want the risk should not be so high that you cannot manage it yeah so as long as you give enough time you can manage the risk with Equity investing and that's why people say stay invested for long term and so on that doesn't mean you should have Rosy ideas of you know the graph moving up like that's nice and smooth and and so on so and the other thing I've learned is about sequence of returns that is the same fund you start an sip in January I start an sip in July yeah he starts an sip in December we compare notes after three years after five years our our experiences can be very different true your return can be positive mind can be negative it can be very very high so that's the sequence of returns it's also called timing luck in the market so when you start and when you end depends on what path the nav follows for you and me so it's very very different so we'll have to combat that how do you combat it just like you can't take your marriage for granted anything you have to work on your relationship you have to work on your portfolio people are people are always in this LIC mode they because when you start an LIC policy you know that you're going to pay premium for the next 15 years so people say tell me which mutual fund can I start an sip for 15 years no it doesn't work like that it's not going to be the same mutual fund that is where the index investing makes a difference if you want to do all these gymnastics then you will have to be either ready to shuffle mutual funds actively manage your portfolio or stick with simple index funds you're done you don't need to worry about fund management risks so these are some of the lessons that life and numbers are taught me so speaking of guarantee a lot of people my father's age people may be your age who are who have seen the the government job era the job security era today that thing is almost negligible so I it's okay to hear the guarantee word from those people because though they have lived the guarantee while alive and uh you know they've invested in LIC policies that comes with a sovereign guarantee government bonds also come with a sovereign guarantee but uh do you think it's strange that when we hear the word guarantee from youngsters oh yes that's it's it's it's sad to see that people still want it see um the the problem is many of us don't understand basic economics uh people say that in the 1990s PP of rate was ppf ETF was 12 14 you would get LIC annuities for 13 and so on but that happened because the government was nearly bankrupt yeah the government became bankrupt in the early 90s and uh unfortunately in the debt markets uh the the more bankrupt you are the more interest people will demand from you yeah when you cannot pay more they will want you to pay they will want higher interest rates yeah and that's how it wasn't until the 90s and then the 2000s things changed so India has gradually shed its communist ah policies and it has become more and more capitalist whether it's good or not is another matter it's debatable but what it means is that all our investments have become Market linked known whether it's PP or VP of Guild trades everything has become Market leaks and if you look at the long term it's actually fallen down yes today interest rates are increasing RBI the report rate is increasing but that's not going to be there for it's it's going to increase but it's going to the the trend is going to be down yeah so we have to prepare for that and uh yeah youngster should not look at what their parents did or what their grandparents did that's a different era and most importantly it's not about returns their lifestyle was much more subdued yeah today everybody wants to live it up yeah whatever their income they want to live it up they say and social media they look at all these images of you know oh this guy has gone for a holiday in Thailand I will go further and Australia I'll go Australia and beat him and that kind of mentality is there the spending is too much that is the problem and if you accompany that with the want of guaranteed returns is a recipe for disaster true so uh speaking of uh government bonds and things that do come with a guarantee these days do you think that guarantee still means something I mean uh what if LIC goes bankrupt so will the government be able to pay off everything it's very unlikely that they uh that's what I said there are risks and there are reasonable risks buying an LIC annuity if I need it that's that's key if I need it there's no problem in fact I will have to I have an NPS and I will have to buy an annuity when I retire so I'll probably use LIC assuming it will still be around at that time and I think that that's a reasonable risk to take because that's like they say there are institutions which are too big to fail LIC is too big to fail SBI HDFC I see I see I say those are all institutions which are too big to fail so that's a reasonable risk to manage but but what I am hinting is uh when people say I am I'm buying lse because it has a sovereign guarantee ah that you should that is fine that argument is fine but are you buying it because you need it yeah that is the problem see I can buy an LIC policy after retirement for annuity yeah to get a pension that's no problem there I would prefer that you know instead of a private insurer for an annuity but I should not buy it that when I'm young and say I'm getting guaranteed returns uh and buy a policy and mix my insurance and investing before retirement that's bad true so it's the question the problem is people are they they're emotional about the wrong things you should be emotional about the right things for that you need little bit data you should look at all you need to do is look at how your lifestyle has changed over the past five years true some tracking of bear tracking of expenses if you do people you you can see that all our lifestyles have increased at about eight to ten percent at the rate of expenses have increased most of it has come from lifestyle creep lifestyle changes and not just uh you know because of the Dal travel increase in inflation and so on that is okay that is about six percent or so roughly approximately because of fuel costs but that's what we need to be looking at we need to my lifestyle is changing can I get rid of my start smartphone ah just because I've retired can I get rid of my cable connection my Ott platforms just because I've retired then that would be your failure right I mean in terms of planning so we have to maintain our lifestyle yeah or the other thing is don't think twice before spending and don't enhance your lifestyle just for the sake of it yeah so then it's a question of need then it doesn't matter whether you're looking for Guarantee or Capital link Market linked resistance or you made a very good point about lifestyle inflation people when you know when people see the data in the news the inflation uh the new number is 7.1 percent people think okay our mutual fund is you know capable of giving 12 plus percent but uh the the formula that builds the inflation number consists of three major ah ingredients the fuel cost clothing and food all three are rising at 12 so you know people plan with seven percent keeping in mind seven percent inflation but in reality majority of their expenses are being raised by 12 percent every year so we have to at least expect 12 percent and that will only come when we you know reconsider our needs a lower our expectations and manage our risk true yeah true the the thing is that 19 people want to do freelancing they want to do that's a good thing very nice to see but but when it comes to investing I believe when a youngster uh 18 or 20 year old wants to invest there for the wrong reasons they can be for the wrong reasons one reason could be I'll generate this much return and then you know I'll feel good about myself so that is that will ultimately land you in losses true so because a sense of maturity has yet to be developed true the same thing is with that's how I see trading as well many people get into trading and they do it because they want to get rich quick it never works like that trading is a lifetime job you learn you have to learn the markets the markets teach you about its risks the risk in day-to-day trading is very very different from the debate investing long term investing risk because the Dynamics are very different so ah it takes a lifetime to learn it yeah and if you look at if you ask any big Trader they will tell you I have lost most of my money at some point in time I've recovered but I did lose it so you're gonna have to bear those big losses and then only then go through that Evolution but people want they see all these Facebook ads about uh passive income from Stock Market trading I don't know how that works the only person who makes passive income is the guy who sells the course yeah so that is very dangerous yeah because it's not the it's not going to change your social station it's just going to give you some spending money here and there to do something extra I think that is wrong I think people young people should have a long term view like Jeff deso says look at your life over 30 years 40 years and think of where you want to be and work towards that don't think about the next one year yeah that's not how wealth is made yeah I just remembered a great example uh when I was little and whenever I go I used to go out and see there's a bridge being built or there's a shopping mall being built I used to ask my parents or I used to ask my myself that okay in two months if I come come here again I should see this you know fully functional and then I would get disappointed that it's still the same it looks still the same the road hasn't been built the building hasn't risen and then I realized that okay big things do take time they will not be built over overnight but I suddenly remember because that you know kept my expectations in check so whenever there's a new government project around my neighborhood I tell tell myself okay this is not for me maybe this is for my kids true that's a good example yes so um regarding the inflation that you asked me so the thing is that our day-to-day expenses inflation is about seven eight percent maybe but the danger is that many services in India are not regulated Health Hospital expenses in India are not regulated at all they can be anything same with the school fees and so on so these are increasing at the rate of 10 12 14 yeah so there's a point Beyond which you can't expect too much return you can't expect to beat 14 inflation yeah if you're lucky you can but that's not going to be a the risks Associated is no longer reasonable for that so there you have to compensate by investing more yeah that that's something that what happens is financial advisors are scared to tell the two clients invest more because they're scheduled run away yeah so we need to invest as much as possible and that the only way we can do is balance our spending today and so that we have we can fund our needs for tomorrow okay so uh you have a you know good investing experience what are some examples of your best and worst uh Investments um I don't think I have a best investment yet I see my life is not fluctuated like that it's been more or less I always looked at my needs and invested probably I would say that um if I had to do it all over again I'd probably get rid of my active funds and replace them all with an index fund okay the biggest reason is that if something happens to me today my wife can just take over that without worrying about uh you know which fund manager is doing better which active fund is doing better and any advisor can look at that portfolio and continue that without so the investments will not be disturbed yeah it can just continue across and Beyond me that is one and also for me today my I have my wealth has grown a little bit so I don't care about which fund works three star four star I don't care but the The Simple Choice which I keep telling to young people but they can keep asking me why don't you uh invest in active one I mean why are you investing in active funds why are you not investing in passive funds the reason is my portfolio has become so big that if I add a passive fund to it it'll be too small it will not make any impact but I tell young people don't make the mistakes I did yeah I I was still I did the same mistakes that anybody does looking at stars looking at recent performance uh that is the biggest mistake people do and they look at the last one year one and a half year two year performance and then they put in money yeah and if they and after they put in money the fund will drop it's the law of averages you can't ah it's a hot hand fallacy you cannot say that the first five balls have been hit for Force therefore the last Bond will also be hit for four it never works like that but that's the mistake I've made those mistakes and I like to think that uh I mean I could have done better true so uh speaking of picking mutual funds I saw one of your videos where you said just pick any mutual fund uh don't go overboard don't add too many funds in your portfolio and you said uh pickup fund that is not so popular ah why is that see it's like the code from The Matrix where agent Smith says that human beings are like viruses they see something good and they go and heard on it they accumulate and they destroy it and then they move on to that so when this when mutual fund investors see some good performing of mutual fund that outperforms significantly everybody goes there yeah and then the aom increases the fund manager faces the heat yeah and he cannot be as Nimble as before he cannot change talks he cannot churn the portfolio and then the performance drops the same thing happened to prashan Jain in 2009 after the Congress government got re-elected the markets moved up OK the markets reacted positively and then there's a lot of inflow into his two funds HDFC equity and HDFC top 200 at that time those with the names and the churn rate the ability in which he was churning the stocks it dramatically dropped and those mutual funds became more and more large cap oriented okay because he that's the only way he would maintain liquidity yeah and handle the portfolio so that's why I said stay away from popular fund managers and popular mutual funds so that you are in a space where uh it's not I mean nobody gets note if the fund doesn't get noticed yeah so you can happily invest that was how paraporic flexi cap was yeah and when I started investing it as an nfo yeah and I thought okay um this is this doesn't have a banking Channel yeah to push fund the fund so it will remain quiet for some time but uh in the last few years it is tremendously grown but now again people are complaining oh they are not investing enough in Google Facebook it's going down so it's it's a I mean they have a short fuse in terms of expectations they just wanted to so my Junior was asking me about the fund that is not performing that was equipment so I'm happy I'm happy if people move away from it yeah so uh speaking about unpopular advice popular mutual fund there's also a point to be considered that if a fund becomes too big people say that it's its ability to generate returns uh gets hindered do you think it's true if yes then how should we invest in a in one mutual fund for a very long term so if if that fund becomes too big what should we do I mean it's very hard to prove it I've tried to prove it that's very difficult to make a meaningful study to say that this because of the aom increase only the returns came down that's not possible because even today there are funds for example HDFC has a mid Cap Fund which has got a very large amount of AUM I forget the name um but it's doing well it's not it's not a stellar performer but it's doing quite well so it's very hard to prove it but it's just a matter of see the the problem is there are faces when all the mutual funds fall down then many people ask why is my mutual fund alone falling down no it's not your fund alone yeah the whole Market is falling so everything will fall that is okay but if there are some reasons where only your fund is falling then uh you should get rid of it so there are two choices one be an active investor yeah and be ready to switch funds every three four years because average it will keep moving up and down today there will be five star tomorrow it will be it'll drop down become five star again back down and so on you should be ready to switch or go through periods of under performance if you have the faith okay very few people have that anyway or simply be an index investor yeah be happy just forget about it you get some return very close to the index and you are happy and I think if the index is if we assume that the index is going to move up over the long term comfortably then all the funds even our average performer would do well yeah so that's why I said don't worry too much about which one you pick because it's not going to be the fund you're going to this is not a marriage yeah I mean it's a it's an acquaintance at best and you're going to change acquaintances for that you need to be professional about looking at a portfolio management the problem I see is that most people don't want to learn portfolio management yeah they don't want to look at it from the top so you should look at your need if you look at your Target Corpus you should look at your asset allocation then you should look at the assets and only then at the fund performance yeah people do the other way wrong yeah but they don't go beyond one performance yeah that is the problem okay so uh speaking of the new investors and considering the fact that more than 1995 percent of Indians don't have enough money to invest what would you suggest them how many mutual funds should they invest into I would say just one is enough just any sensex or Nifty ah not any I would say the ones with a reasonably low tracking error that is the one thing they should be looking at trying to increase income if they the income increases everything is fine in fact um I have seen this in my life and uh if advisor swapnil Kenda has also made this point that is let's say two people start one guy starts earning right after B let's say 22 Yeah and the other guys studies he does other you know higher education qualifies just like what I did when I went through the other guys only starts at 35 or 32.

The salaries will be very different yeah the guy who starts late will have a much better salary yeah and he can actually make up for the time lost yeah so I would say focus on trying to get your skills up make sure you are always employable you should be constantly employable either you should know how to do it on your own be an entrepreneur or you should be in demand if that is ok then you can spend some time without investing focusing on increasing your income you can always make up for it later okay but if you say this much is enough I'm not going to study further then would that would severely limit your ability to build wealth over the long term okay so just one fund uh is enough but the focus should be on increasing your income and when you have enough money then you can you know maybe think about uh adding a fund but no you can always make up for the lost time that's what I mean the point is people want to they are always fomo is a big problem if you look at all Financial ads fomo will be there have you invested in this have you not done this they will always try to push that for more button that is what we have to control it's you should tell yourself I am invested in the Nifty index I don't need to good look beyond that I'm fine I don't I don't need a mid cap I don't need a small cap they don't matter Nifty is good enough that control is the huge thing I don't because my friend is doing trading I don't need to do it yeah I I that control and that maturity is the biggest biggest problem reminded me of what uh Mr Rakesh jinjala said uh in during his last years someone asked asked him why don't you invest in crypto he said I don't have to go to every party so precisely yeah precisely that's a wonderful thing so uh you have a you are a physicist I can't even imagine what it's like to become one you have a job full-time job at IIT Madras and now you are into investing you make content around investing and which is very useful how do you manage both of these it has been a very uneven ride for me it's not been normal in the sense that um 10 years ago I was I started this website in May 2012.

a few months after that I was down with an autoimmune condition for the next one year I was almost bedridden I couldn't do much I couldn't teach I couldn't go to work against one so um learning about finances one way for me to get out of that funk it was I was in a very bad state of mind I thought this is how my life is going to be so it kept me occupied something to think about yeah but then after that I used to work on these calculators whenever I had time we have we have summer vacations winter vacations and so on so most of the content was made around that time and scheduled later on yeah so over the last few years I've learned the power of Delegation now I realized that I'm becoming old I cannot uh you know keep up at the same pace so now I have a team of people who wish to be anonymous there are there are people working in all the big tech tech companies all around the world and they helped me manage my site and they also produce content now most of them are Anonymous some of them they prefer their names they produce some products and so on so they maintain the site so I've learned to delegate it and I'm I'm looking forward to do something else now yeah I'm trying to because my if you look at my life I've done all the things that a physicist should not do I have looked worked in one area in of physics then stopped working on it and done something completely different then after a few years done something else so I would like to move on to something Beyond finance and do something else I don't know what that is I'm still waiting for what that calling is but I'm hoping that's it and so I've delegated it and I want to you know I'm shading my role as in free Finkel gradually okay so uh Matlab if I were to put it you are at the completion stage of a current phase see well I mean you've learned physics you've learned investing now you want to do something else see the thing I would say that completion meaning that I would like to do new things in the sense that um I have covered the basics yeah and if I do it again it will just be saying the same thing over and over and that repetition can be done by anybody I can delegate it to somebody what I I would at the moment like to do is to study more about Market risks okay it would not be uh immediately useful for day-to-day investing or investing in mutual funds whatever but I want to study the nature of the market risk how is it linked to chaos how is it linked to fractals what what can we do can we learn something useful from it okay that is something that the problem is that doesn't translate well into content yeah because very few people will read it yeah it it that's what happens with science and research you know it takes years and years for someone to finally find some conclusion that can be conveyed to the world but uh it's necessary if some some if some nobody will do it then we are going nowhere so those things will take computations and it will take you know I had to set the computer will take weeks to finish so I would rather do that privately and publish separately rather than on frequently help okay that's my plan so so we we got the sneak peek into what you are planning for yourself in the future so you teach some of the smartest kids in this country at IIT Madras do you think they also make some investing mistakes and are those mistakes similar to a common man's investing mistakes uh first of all I don't think the kids in IIT are smart it is just that um those kids have taken a decision to sacrifice their time and effort much more and much earlier than other people in the country yeah whether it comes to working for GE or any other entrance exam related to IIT or in IIT so they're not smart it's just that they've they spend so much time that they have accumulated some knowledge it looks like they're they're smart it's like what you have done if you if you do video editing alone yeah and nothing else after six months you're an expert yeah so that's that's how those kids are but other than that they're as normal as fallible as anybody else they have done they make the same mistakes or no don't make the mistakes as anybody else I don't see any difference okay the uh what I see today is that like I mentioned to you earlier young people are more interested in investing right yeah they don't want to invest the way that like their parents did of course there are many people who are still influenced by their parents but the number of people who want to do it right do it independently have also increased they're they're searching for content and that's how I I knew that was what I do at free even Cal will eventually work I knew that initially it was the many years where nothing happened nobody noticed free Finkel but eventually thanks to Google's machine learning has improved so much and you you don't have that kind of usual keywords stuffing that kind of SEO doesn't work I have been the biggest beneficiary of it and I've been able to cater to these kids who are looking for it so uh that's that's great I mean uh one one very important point that I'd like to discuss I I haven't had the chance to discuss in detail with any other uh expert yet do you think uh our expectations uh of wedding and you know our expenses are on wedding will hold us back will not uh make us achieve retirement plans I think so yes I think I'm I'm scared the uh I I'm scared to go to weddings these days to be honest because I see people are serving popcorn there are candy flosses there are drones flying yeah I mean I I just cannot I cannot stomach it there's too much and I ask about the expenses they say minimum 50 lakhs yeah in certain circles and that's a minimum and they have these huge photo shoots and so on most of it I would say don't spend because how much ever you spend your relatives are always going to find something to complain about the wedding it's always going to say this is this is bad that's bad you didn't do that well forget about that if you have enough money give it to the kids yeah let them start their career or start their family life in a you know solid Financial basis and say spend it well instead of but that's life I mean you're always going to have these pressures and it and it's infectious they I I overheard a conversation in IIT some years back there it is very trivial thing one guy who said that guy had ah two deserts in his daughter's reception so in my daughter's reception I'm going to have three digits that's how it's a very trivial thing but that's how people think and they want to outdo for no reason that's not you don't know that's not a goal nobody cares yeah right so yes it's going to be a problem yeah what is going to be a problem is that people want to change their social station the wrong way yeah they're only earning this much but they want to spend that much although they don't they want to spend that much and they and they borrow but if you want to change your social station you should do that by taking in risks with your career yeah ah it's a reasonable risk the right amount of risks and you should ah you know hold back your spending and ah you know even if you want to work somewhere as an intern without pay you should be ready to do that but people don't want that they want to they get the bonus it's gone and I usually go I go to these corporate meets and I ask them when does your money run out yeah yeah so I I I usually hear some people say some people say 20th 20th is very good these days it's a it's a record yeah okay so um if I go up North it becomes worse some people said one guy said third he said I run I get my salary on the first I run out of money on the third I said what are you doing how are you how are you even manage it that's how it is the spending has become too much everybody wants to change their social station by spending yeah that's never going to happen it you're going to go down that's the biggest problem we have so the reason I ask is because I see a lot of people uh you know borrowing money 20 lakhs 30 lakhs just to facilitate their wedding just to show that they can or you know three three desserts I know yes then the point that you made about kids that people you know they the the people who are spending 20 30 lakhs on marriage after borrowing money will again struggle to you know raise their children and then uh okay it's one thing to spend a lot of money on a wedding then at least people should understand we are not ready to have a kid yet so we should first you know pay our debt we should then start saving because in two three years we'll have to send them school so that whole planning is so messed up and sometimes I feel that why is it so difficult to understand it to me it feels it feels fairly simple to say that okay if I spend money I will not have money but it at the same time very difficult for people to understand yes it's a it's a big deal and if you have two children I think it's very difficult I I often say that inflation should be the best contraceptive one kid manageable two kids you're you're almost crude yeah three if because the second becomes twins you are done for what happens like what you said if you borrow and for a wedding you're going to spend the next five six years repaying that debt so you're scared about starting a family by the time you become old yeah you can't natural childbirth is gone you have all these fertility clinics everywhere now if you go via the fertility clinic minimum is twins yeah you never get one very rare if you get twins and to start with your your life is sealed that's it you can forget about you have to work until 60 70.

So that's where these things matter they will pile up that's that's the real power of compounding I would say negative compounding we should say that yes you should that's why I keep telling people don't do anything spend one hour doing nothing every day yeah put all your gadgets away maybe go for walk do some meditation but think about your life what is it I want to do think about all the nightmares that can occur to you it's very easy to dream dream forget it you will get it but think about all the bad things that can happen to you and how are you fighting for those bad things for example men there are I have uh I have a we had a PhD student a few years back in the department he went trekking he lost his footing and fell okay to death his parents were farmers they had no money this guy is the only one spending spending for his expenses and giving them money from his typhen yeah and what would they do so those are the things that those are the risks we need to think about what would happen so I I say that even if you are young and not married doesn't mean you don't need a term insurance policy you should look for your parents are your parents financially independent buy a term insurance policy put your parent answers normally they'll get something yeah so that's that thing that happens only when you think about yourself I'm not saying be selfish but think about all the bad things that can happen to you and how you can fight it but we are always thinking about what the other guy is doing how much return you get here Rama so we are being distracted by uh too much information and I feel uh thinking about bad things is not very well received in the community if you tell your friends okay last night I thought uh you know what if I died you people your parents friend friends everyone will tell you why do why do you always think bad things but I think there's a fine line between you know rationally uh you know imagining situations that are very much possible and overthinking correct so I I don't call this overthinking and I'm I I do this myself maybe not one or maybe more than one hour because that's what my personality has become but I always keep Imagining the worst case scenarios what if this could happen yeah but it's it's such a burden sometimes but I still don't call it overthinking no it's it's overthinking when it ah when you don't do anything when you when it paralyzes you uh negative thoughts should force you into action yeah whatever thoughts should force you into action you should do something to you know as a as an arrangement to fix that risk then you're fine that's currently a minus 50 50 I take 50 action uh yeah but yeah it's very important to think about those things and people people don't do it so any any last piece of advice that you want to give to our viewers oh I one lesson life has taught me is don't give advice even if somebody asks for it the reason for reason is uh I always believe that we are all victims of our experiences my lessons in life are based on my journey yeah and just like the Sip started on different dates can have different returns all of us are different Tom Cruise said something wonderful he said I have never seen a normal human being yeah everybody has a story and everybody's story is different so whatever advice I would give assuming that the mistakes that I made will be the mistakes you make or anybody else make it's always very dangerous so I so only the one thing that I've learned is that we should be ready to course correct at any point in time there are no set plans if things change we change if I mean if that like we say if the if the data changes the opinion changes but don't change opinions before the data so we should be ready to be flexible that's all I can okay thank you so much lastly uh for people who are building their retirement plans let's say some my let's say my goal is 20 years away uh what would you suggest them because if I were to retire today and today is let's say 20 2008 subprime crisis my retirement would be screwed so what do you suggest how do they navigate that yeah there are a couple of ways to do it the the first thing is to invest as much as possible like I like I always say I don't know if I can say it like invest like your assets on fire yeah at all times so accumulate as much as possible and uh decide on what your asset allocation is going to be after retirement years before retirement okay so um when I started out I always thought that 60 Equity is too much for me okay but uh because my net Health has grown today I'm comfortable with 60 equity and now I want to have 60 Equity throughout my life that means that 40 fixed income should be enough right to handle most of my needs in retirement so things change like I said you have to adapt but for that you need to plan uh you must be ready to have my thumb rule is at least for first 15 years in retirement you should have enough fixed income assets to get inflation protected income okay if you do that then you can handle those kind of negative uh market returns uh Market you know sideways markets and so on at least for 15 years but then you'll have to manage the rest of the portfolio actually so one important point is the way Indians are managing retirement money is dramatically shifting so our parents generation 100 fixed income fixed deposits small savings schemes annuities and so on now that's changing to me little bit into mutual funds debt mutual funds so more and more my generation will be having a proper bucket strategy with very little dependence on pension your generation will be even more so we don't have the necessary expertise to cater to that right we also don't have the market history to understand the risks yeah so it's a very dangerous situation to be in so we should Safeguard as much as possible with fixed income assets but also have some Equity Capital let us say 20 to 30 percent not more than that to handle inflationary ah increases in retirement so it's a very tricky situation yeah so one one important point that you made uh retirement planning has been dramatically shifting so people earlier would invest in LIC policies and you know they had fixed job security uh everything uh even today if you look at our parents I mean my parents uh and my parents uh of my friends and family they would you know that the go-to investment that they would pick is either real estate uh or uh you know I need anything FD or something like that but even then if they want to invest in mutual funds they would go 100 in equity so why do you think is that I think that's that's the advice they get is the problem because the people in that generation they want to ask advice to people you ask advice you're always going to be sold them bad mutual fund most of the times and you're all uh that's that's where they need to do a little bit of research or you need to work with a semi registered investment advisor who's fee only without any conflict of interest but many people are not willing to do that they don't want to ah you know spend that money for advice and do that so it's a tricky situation which requires some thought and ah my problem is it's okay if the guy has got a lot of assets elsewhere yeah and 100 Equity being the only fund is okay as long as it's a small portion of the portfolio yeah what is now happening is that that is increasing alarmingly it's a it's a changing face as we speak and more and more assets are going to be in ah in the in mutual funds after retirement and that's going to be difficult managing because if you have these sudden shocks either a crash or a series of negative returns uh the retiree is going to be in trouble so that requires careful careful planning true thank you so much sir pleasure agreeing to do this and uh I hope you have a good investing research ahead thank you so much wish you all the best I hope you got to learn a lot from this episode it is time that I ask you for a favor do share this episode in your friends and family WhatsApp groups and after you've done it come back here and write it in the comments that you've shared this episode I'll personally respond and appreciate your effort also download cred app from the link given in the description and in the top comment use cred app to pay all your utility and credit card bills you will earn credit coins in return which you can then use to get huge discounts on your favorite products trust me they are discounts like you've never seen I like cred app because it encourages you to be disciplined to pay your bills on time and it rewards you to do the same so make sure you download cred and share this episode I'll see you in the sixth episode of jagruk talks season 2 powered by cred bye-bye jelly ham Papas podcast [Music]

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Our $3.7 Million Fat FIRE Strategy | New Investment Strategy to Retire Early by 45

In september 2021, i published a video about our fat fire strategy in the amount of 2 8 million dollars and that video is still by far the best performing video, and it was like the 15th video i’ve ever made for this channel with less than 150 subscribers, our fat fire strategy, became the core of my youtube channel here at fireside chat and that video had a complete breakdown of our fire expenses like housing, health care and discretionary like travel, entertainment and fine dining. A lot has changed since that video was published in september 2021. We’re seeing a high inflation rate, like we’ve, never seen before, unless you’re a baby boomer who experienced high inflation in the 70s, the stock market, like the s p 500. Dow and nasdaq is down 20 25 or even 30 since the beginning of 2022. I also had a significant life event and i recently got married to my beautiful wife, whom i dated for over four years, and we’re still fine tuning our fat fire strategy to make sure that we can retire early together for uh by age 45. After doing several fat fire calculations based on our income, expenses, inflation and investment, we’re going to have to change our fat fire number from 2 8 million dollars to about 3 7 million dollars, and this is the most conservative conservative fat fire number. We came up with and we would also like to live in several locations and not just stay in one place during our retirement, which will increase our baseline expenses. If you’re brand new to my channel, my name is sai and welcome. So in this video. I’m gon na go over how we’re investing to achieve fat fire of 3 7 million dollars and how we’re, prioritizing our savings and investment based on our future expenses, so we can retire early from the 95 workforce. This is a juicy video and i hope you get a lot out of it. Also don’t forget to check out my grammarly affiliate link in the description below so the first thing we had to figure out was our fat fire number. Now we have several fire strategies like lean fire, which is for people who want to live a minimalistic lifestyle coast fire, which is for people who want to coast into normal retirement and barista fire, which is for people who want to take a part time job to Pay for health care expenses, while using their nest, eggs to pay for their retirement lifestyle, be sure to check out those videos, and i will put those links in the description below but fat. Fire is the lifestyle we want where we can truly enjoy our lives by traveling, the world and living in several locations. We don’t know what those countries are just yet, but we plan to travel overseas at least once or twice a year to do some research. So the first thing we have to do was to figure out our annual expenses. Originally, we would have been happy with just 100 000 a year in passive income using the 4 withdrawal rate. So what that means is that, with a 2 5 million dollar investment portfolio, we would withdraw 4 of that portfolio every year in the amount of one hundred thousand dollars. We would also have uh three hundred thousand dollars or ten percent of our total portfolio in cash or cds on the sideline. In case we experience a bear market, like we’re, seeing now in 2022, so we wouldn’t have to sell our stocks at a loss from our investment portfolio. Our baseline expenses will increase based on inflation, but that doesn’t mean every single expense. In our household is going to dramatically increase our mortgage payments, for example, will remain the same because they would be at a 30 year fixed mortgage rate, and another possibility is that we pay off our home completely if the mortgage rate stays above six percent for the Next 10 years, which would suck, in my opinion and, however, paying six six percent interest for our primary residence, wouldn’t be worth it anymore. If the stock market performs seven percent on average annually, even if the market performs 10 annually, the margin isn’t wide enough for us to justify to keep making mortgage payments. Then let me know in the comment section down below if you have a different, take or different approach on our strategy, i would estimate our baseline expenses between housing utilities, transportation, groceries and healthcare expenses to be anywhere around 50 and 75 000 a year based on a Three percent annual inflation rate and the only wild card we have is healthcare, and i can only imagine our healthcare expenses to continue to increase over the coming years and especially if we decide to retire in the us. We’re also going to have several properties in different states or different countries, and that will increase our basic housing expenses with our fat fire number at 3, 7 million dollars, the 4 withdrawal rate will be 148 000 a year. The 3 withdrawal rate will be around 111 000 a year if we end up not spending too much money due to a bear market or other short term catalysts. After the baseline expenses, we could spend anywhere between 36 and 61 000 a year on travel and entertainment. Keep in mind that we’re going to recalculate our fire number every year, based on our future expenses and inflation, make sure to watch the entire video, and i will show you our passive income sources and the investment strategy by the way. If you need help creating your own fire strategy, you can schedule a free one on one 20 minute financial coaching session by visiting fischer com, coaching for our fat fire strategy. We’re going to prioritize our savings and investments in this order. Cash for annual expenses like taxes – and we want to have at least 10 to 15 percent of our net worth in liquid assets. So if our net worth is a million dollars, then we want to have at least one hundred thousand dollars in cash or cash equivalent assets. The second priority is our retirement accounts like tsp pensions, iras and hsas, and i will talk more about that in a little bit. The third priority is our non retirement assets like the taxable brokerage accounts for our early retirement between the ages of 45 and 60. The fourth priority is our travel fund, entertainment and our daughter’s college fund. I also have a fire checklist that we follow and you can download for free by visiting fightcech com contact. We have our emergency fund in a completely separate savings, account that we do not touch unless it’s for emergency medical expenses or anything else that’s unexpected. Our rule is that we only use it if it’s an unexpected emergency, and i strongly encourage you to check out this video i made about the emergency fund and i will link that video in the description below just keep in mind that the differences between A rainy day fund and an emergency fund is that in a rainy day fund you need to cash right away for a blown tire, and an emergency fund is to cover your living expenses. While you’re looking for a new source of income and since we’re debt free and we have a fully funded emergency fund, we maxed out our tsp iras and hsas between my wife and i we contribute up to 50 000 a year, including our Employer matches and she has the nevada state pension fund, which is a lot different than the traditional retirement accounts like 401k or tsp. She contributes 15 of her income and her employer makes a 100 match to her personal contribution, and i can contribute up to 20 500 and another eight hundred dollars from my employer match to be exact. We contribute a total of forty, nine thousand six hundred and thirty one dollars, and we expect the contribution limits to increase over the years. We also prioritize our roth iras and since we exceed our roth ira income limits, we have to do what’s called a backdoor roth ira, and i will link that video in the description below we each contribute six thousand dollars to our traditional iras as non Deductible contributions and then we convert the six thousand dollars to our roth iras. That’s a total of twelve thousand dollars between the two of us and just keep in mind that the rules for roth iras are different like contributions, conversions and earnings. And i strongly encourage you to watch the video about the five year conversion ladder, so you have a better understanding of the roth ira conversion rules. We don’t plan to touch our roth iras until we’re in our 60s or 70s, because we want our roth ira race to grow tax free as much as possible and as long as possible. We expect to have about four million dollars total in our roth ira race. By the time we turn 60 Hsa is another investment account that we own through our employers, and i understand that not everyone is eligible to contribute to the hsa, especially if you have tricare hsa stands for health savings account and it’s completely different from the Healthcare fsa, which stands for flexible savings account and the hsa comes with triple tax advantages, so we can contribute to it in pre tax dollars, which lowers our taxable income. We can invest what we put in the hsa into an index fund like the s p, 500 index fund and the interest and earnings will grow tax free. We can also withdraw from our hsa tax free as long as as we use it for medical expenses and we keep every receipt from medical, dental and vision expenses we paid in cash, so we can get reimbursed for those expenses during our early retirement. When we turn 65, we can withdraw from our hsa for non medical expenses and only pay federal income taxes for the withdrawals. Since we file our taxes jointly, we contribute up to 7 300 a year for our family hsa. If we don’t make any withdrawals during our early retirement, we should have about two hundred and fifty thousand dollars by the time we turn 50 years old by age 65. We should have 1 2 million dollars in our hsa, with a 10 average annual rate of return between tsp state pension funds, uh roth iras and hsas. We’re contributing a total of 68 931 dollars just for the year 2022 and we’re expecting the contribution limits to increase, at least for the next few years, due to high inflation hsa’s contribution limits for 2023 is already increased from seventy. Three hundred dollars to seventy seven hundred dollars. I expect the contribution limits for iras to increase from six thousand dollars to possibly seven thousand dollars and 401k or tsp from 20 500 to possibly 21 500. We also contribute to our non retirement. Investment accounts, like the taxable brokerage accounts. We have one brokerage account that only invests in aggressive and high growth stocks. We have another brokerage account that only invests in income based stocks that pay quarterly dividends to their shareholders. We’re hoping to consistently invest 50 000. A year into these taxable brokerage accounts so that by the time we retire early in 2032, we would have at least one million dollars in our dividend: stock portfolio and another million dollars in our growth stock portfolio. If we maintain a four percent annual dividend yield in one of those accounts, we should make forty thousand dollars a year just in dividend income and keep in mind that the tax rate for dividends is also different from the federal income tax. We expect to have minimal earned income, and that puts us in that zero percent capital gains tax category based on my calculation, and if we make less than eighty four thousand dollars a year in earned income, our dividend tax rate should remain zero percent. As long as congress, doesn’t mess up mess up our tax rates, our goal is to minimize our taxes as much as possible during our early retirement. So now let’s go back to my fire checklist for a minute and we’re already saving over 60 of our income towards our retirement and non retirement accounts and whatever we have remaining usually goes to our travel and entertainment fund. And we call that our sinking funds – we’re, currently saving anywhere between 10 and 15 000 a year into our travel fund, and if we decide to travel more or our income continues to increase, then we’ll bump it up to our uh, maybe 20, To 30 000 a year, we’re also contributing to our daughter,’s. 529. It it’s projected to cover a significant amount of expenses for college tuitions. We’re not too worried about her college tuition because i already transferred my post 911 gi bill over to her and several years ago, and even if my daughter ends up not using the 529 college fund, i can change the beneficiary to my future grandkids or Even to myself, if i want to by the way you can get our free fire resources, including these spreadsheets, by visiting fischer com contact, you can also check out the fight such as shop, and i have all of my stuff on my bookshelf. At firesidechat com shopping. Now let’s talk about our income sources during our early retirement, if 2022 taught us anything and that is to diversify our income sources, so we don’t have all of our money in the stock market with 3 7 million dollars our net worth should Be anywhere between six and nine million dollars, one of our main sources of income is our dividend, and i’m gon na be very conservative here and say we’ll make anywhere between 40 and 50 000 a year in dividend income just from our taxable Brokerage account at the same time, we’re going to convert what we have in our traditional retirement accounts to our roth iras and that will trigger a taxable event right. However, since our earned income is zero because we will be retired, every 50 000 we convert from our traditional retirement accounts will be taxed at 12, as opposed to 32 percent based on our current income. So for every conversion we make from a traditional to a roth account there’s a five year waiting period before uh before we can withdraw that conversion, completely tax free from our roth ira. So what we’ll need to do is have extra cash to cover expenses during the first five years of conversion to keep our taxes at the lowest rate possible. So when we convert fifty thousand dollars in the year 2032, we will have to wait until january. First, 1st 2037 to make the 50 000 withdrawal completely tax, free and penalty free. We just need to make sure that we have enough cash or other income sources to cover between 2032 and 2037. This is a common fire strategy that early retirees use. So i strongly encourage you to check out this video about the 5 year conversion ladder. We prioritize our retirement accounts over our non retirement accounts because our retirement accounts, like the tsp pension fund, iras and hsas, are like a full back plan. If we decide not to retire early and we want to grow our tax advantage, retirement accounts as much as possible, so we can retire comfortably when we turn 60 years old, completely. Tax free and our primary focus is building our stock market and real estate portfolios. To make sure the money can last during our early retirement between the ages of 45 and 60, consistency and patience are the keys to our financial success. We’ll always invest up to the maximum contribution limits to our tsp ira and hsa and will save at least half of our income to both retirement and non retirement accounts. Whenever we experience a bear market like in 2022, we’re excited to invest in these stocks with a discount and it’s like going to a black friday sale at best buy and what’s different about this bear market is that we’re Dealing with high inflation as well, we increased our fire number because the prices we’re seeing now should be the prices we see five years from now, and i think a lot of these expenses are already priced in and we’re not going to see Much of a decline in the future, but instead there will be a slowdown in the inflation rate in 2023 and possibly into 2024. This is why budgeting is so important for everyone who is pursuing financial independence and retiring early from the 9 to 5 workforce, and if you want to know more about how to invest for your future, be sure to check out these two videos so that’s It i appreciate you watching my video don’t forget to subscribe and i hope to see you in the next video have a good one Music. You

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